Nintendo DS Variants Discussion

[kedawa]

I think the biggest danger for the DS, and the best hope for the PSP, is that the DS will become stigmatized as the handheld for non-gamers.
Nintendo's success in expanding their market could give Sony the opportunity to steal away the core gaming demographic.
Afterall, Nintendo seems more interested in betting the bank on a vast, yet fickle, market than securing the smaller, more reliable core market.

[SpoDaddy]

While I love my new DS, and though it seems to have better games and more gaming potential, I can't help but think that in some way this'll end up like the Dreamcast. Granted, Nintendo isn't in the same situation Sega is in financially, but I remember the first year the PS2 was out, the Dreamcast had killer games and critical support. That didn't stop sales of the PS2, nor those same critics saying "The PS2 will eventually get better games".

Again, I realize this isn't a 100% accurate analogy, but there are enough similarities to warrant worry.

I disagree. With PS2 Sony was already the dominant force in the market, and Sega had a history of going bust with consoles, plus Sega was broke and Sony's machine was backwards compatible with what put them in a position of dominance in the first place. Sony also had tons of major third parties that Sega didn't (EA, Square, etc), and their machine had a key feature (dvd playback) at the exact point in time when the market was first embracing that technology on a large scale.

Nintendo's the dominant force already in the handheld market (most recently because of the GBA, which the DS is backwards compatible with), are far from broke, have even more third party support than Sony in this case, have a long history of producing durable, successful and fun handhelds, and have built a machine that is simple and affordable to develop successful fun games for in a time when development costs are skyrocketing. I really don't see a parallel between DC and DS, other than that they both have great 2D and niche games and both pioneer online play in a way. From a market standpoint they're night and day.

[MechDeus]

With PS2 Sony was already the dominant force in the market

Nintendo's the dominant force already in the handheld market

So... you're trying to reenforce his point?

and Sega had a history of going bust with consoles

By "history" you mean the same amount as Nintendo (32X, Saturn and Game Gear versus Nintendo 64, 64DD and Virtual Boy). Interesting point, except for how that only continues to prove his speculation instead of helping you.

Sony also had tons of major third parties that Sega didn't (EA, Square, etc), and their machine had a key feature (dvd playback) at the exact point in time when the market was first embracing that technology on a large scale.

Just like the PSP (except with Memory Sticks instead of DVDs).

have even more third party support than Sony in this case

Debatable, considering how few first-party games Sony's made for the PSP while the DS' primary software is mostly first-party.

and have built a machine that is simple and affordable to develop successful fun games for in a time when development costs are skyrocketing.

That's the DC all right.

[kedawa]

So... you're trying to reenforce his point?

No, his point was that the DS was like the DC, not the PS2.

Just like the PSP (except with Memory Sticks instead of DVDs).

Yeah, cuz everybody's hyped about memory sticks.

[MechDeus]

Yeah, cuz everybody's hyped about memory sticks.

Not that specifically but it as a gateway; the building integration into our society of media devices that are catch-alls. With memory sticks the PSP plays mp3s, videos, is a photo viewer, can run emulation of older systems, control devices through a wireless connection to the PC (there's a way to run WoW on the PSP, I shit you not), etc. At the same time we've had a building of videogame systems as media centers and iPods and cellphones integrating more functions.

The PS2 was primarily used a DVD player - a secondary function - by many people for the first year of its existance, and the PSP is being primarily used for its secondary functions so far. It's too early to tell how long that will remain (or if the PSP will ever take off in its games library like the PS2 did), but that connection remains intact so far.

[kedawa]

In that sense, yeah, I guess yo could argue that, but I don't think it's anywhere near as big as DVD playback was for PS2.
Besides, memory sticks are too proprietary and expensive, and the homebrew/emu scene is only representative of a tiny fraction of PSP owners.

[1CCOSA]

Once the current gen consoles have run their course, then the PSP will become a more attractive platform for third parties.
As of right now, there's little reason for developers to invest in PSP development when they could make the same game for PS2, for the same cost, and make a boatload more money.

Uh, if anything they'll be stretched even more to develop games for PSP when the PS3 is released. If it's expensive for them to dev for PSP now when the PS2 is on its last leg then imagine how bad it could be when PS3 dev kicks into high gear.

While I love my new DS, and though it seems to have better games and more gaming potential, I can't help but think that in some way this'll end up like the Dreamcast. Granted, Nintendo isn't in the same situation Sega is in financially, but I remember the first year the PS2 was out, the Dreamcast had killer games and critical support. That didn't stop sales of the PS2, nor those same critics saying "The PS2 will eventually get better games".

Again, I realize this isn't a 100% accurate analogy, but there are enough similarities to warrant worry.

Did the DC sell as many units as the DS and did the DC have the same rapidly installed base of satisfied owners as the DS? Did it have the support of Square-Enix? How many DC games besides Sonic or the 2K games sold as well as any given top selling DS game? Did it have AAA third parties making games for it because it was easier to dev for than Sony's machine? And it's gonna take a lot more this year than GTA: LC and the Jak spin off to take on the DS's holiday lineup.

[kedawa]

Did the DC sell as many units as the DS and did the DC have the same rapidly installed base of satisfied owners as the DS?

The Dreamcast had a record setting launch and a solid first year.
Until recently, the DS installed base was anything but satisfied.

Did it have the support of Square-Enix? How many DC games besides Sonic or the 2K games sold as well as any given top selling DS game? Did it have AAA third parties making games for it because it was easier to dev for than Sony's machine? And it's gonna take a lot more this year than GTA: LC and the Jak spin off to take on the DS's holiday lineup.

I'm not sure about sales, but I will say this, Capcom's output on the DC was better than it has been for any comparable period of time since, and Square hasn't made anything good since Tobal No.2.
I think you're right, though.
PSP has sweet fuck all to offer compared to DS.

[Clash!]

Hmph, I think I am the only one that wants a Green DS. And not with some stupid Pokemon logo on it or something, just make a green one.

But, if I get a DS anytime soon its going to be that Mario Kart bundle.

[1CCOSA]

The Dreamcast had a record setting launch and a solid first year.
Until recently, the DS installed base was anything but satisfied.

Right, but by overall satisfaction and sales I am referring to Japan.

And heck yes Capcom gave their all to support the DC, no argument there.