Robobo - Now with more designs!

[MechDeus]

That's nothing to aspire to. Kidnemo's comics are funny, but the panels are boring as hell and usually identical to the one before it with a differenct facial expression.

He's still got a clean style that's a lot better than this and he's worked more on that with Kristi, probably because he's not doing tedious pixel art there.

Andrew asked for your opinions not me.

I love how you two offer no constructive criticism at all. Seriously, out with the suggestions then scallywags!

That's some awesome short-term memory you've got going on.

What I want you to realize is that you gave your opinion and it came off as seemingly put that it is the only one that matters.

Guess what? That's how opinions work. Do you think Mzo gave two shits about how Dave or I thought when he said he liked your comic? No. And as far as he's concerned his opinion of what's funny is the only one that matters to him.

I don't just accept it and hope to benefit from it. I try to challenge you into maybe giving something another chance from a different mindset.

WOW. So you don't even want to try and get better, you just want to force other people to like what you make? That's the most retarded thing I've heard in a long time.

Now, would you care to explain how I haven't given it a chance? I've read through all three times you guys have posted comics and have sat here and posted overviews of multiple comics, where I felt trouble points were, and how I thought they might possibly be improved. It's obvious that I've read the comics and gone over them frame-by-frame to help better them, so please point out where you got the idea that I haven't given them a chance.

Although like I said before you seem to have something against Andrew anyways.

I didn't have anything against Andrew, I just called him out whenever he said something amazingly stupid. I've done the same thing to plenty of other people (and have had it done to me), it's just usually gone on longer with Andrew because he was stubborn. In any case, care to point out when the last time I had any beef with him was? So long as he's a good poster I have no problems with him, and he's been one for quite a while.

Let me just ask a simple question.

Do those of you who don't like our comic like say Penny Arcade or PVP? Do you think they are funny all the time? Or very hit or miss?

What FuryFox said.

[jonas]

Whatever, kill the witches.


Wait, you liked Van Helsing didn't you?

[rezo]

WOW. So you don't even want to try and get better, you just want to force other people to like what you make? That's the most retarded thing I've heard in a long time.

True.

If all you're doing is trying to find someone, anyone that will like whatever it is you happen to do, there is no way you will fail, because there are people that like everything.

However, someone liking it does not mean a joke it is well told, just like someone liking a drawing doesn't mean it is well drawn. There are many people that will love a drawing with broken anatomy, bad perspective and impossible lighting, either because they don't know better or because they don't care. But their liking it doesn't make the problems go away, and more importantly, an artist looking to improve his anatomy, perspective and lighting would do well to be wary of their compliments as all they are telling him is that "there are people that will like your work even when it sucks". Sucks, that is, based on what he wants to achieve. The opinions that would matter to him, then, are those from people that know what he is going for, and know why he isn't there yet.

And this applies to writing as well. Unless you're a master of the type of humor you're interested in(would you feel comfortable and confident competing against the things you respect, like the Simpsons and so forth?) you do not simply execute comics that are perfect examples of it without fault and anyone that doesn't like them simply doesn't get them because your own work was flawless. No, you attempt to create the type of humor you're interested in. And you can fail. And you can fail even though you like it after you finish. And you can fail even though someone on a messageboard says "this is funny!" And its important to be able to have an honest idea of how successful something actually is independently, as well as to recognize what criticism is worthwhile and who you can get that sort of criticism from. For instance, I was working on a short story recently, and my roommate had problems with the second chapter, and they made sense - even though I didn't notice them at all while working on it... so I immediately checked with a friend of mine online because he's a good writer, and he agreed... and so I'm redrawing the second chapter. I could have argued that I just like working on the story and someone would like it even if I didn't change it and that would certainly have been true... but that doesn't change the fact that something was wrong. It's important to understand that, and I think Andrew already does.

Anyways, robobo -

My opinion of the strips was mostly negative, but not really damning as I think some of the ideas were ok if not pulled off very well.

The first strip - The huge dialogue bubble in the middle kills it I think. The general concept of gandalf or a wizard of any kind helping someone cheat at a video game could be funny very easily though, so it's just a matter of getting the timing down. I'd pull away from the zany dialogue for its own sake stuff(more of that in the 2nd strip, but I got the same impression from the gandalf chatter)... a simple "No, 50% is guessing. You're immaculate, it's like I'm playing baseball with gandalf." would have been enough. Then it would seem like robobo is responding directly to the notion that he is similar to gandalf, rather than referring to the boys general ramblings about cloth color and what-not as ridiculous. And it would just flow a lot better.

The art also harms this one, and the others. I know you're using the comic as practice and that sort of thing can't be helped until you just get better, but for now, keep the areas the characters are in simple. Practice drawing panels at whatever crazy angles you want... but if in the end it comes out looking sloppy, scrap it and put the camera in front of the characters. You'll improve from drawing the scrapped panels as well as the simpler ones, but it would harm the comic.

2: I thought robobo's dialogue killed this one. However, the robot bathing to make use of a sweet smelling soap was a pretty good idea(until I remembered that robots would get dirty and develop an odor over time, contrary to what the comic said...!)

But yeah, its a case of pretty obviously situational humor emphasizing humorous dialogue so much that it detracts. Perpetually unclothed robot not wanting to be seen while in the bath is a pretty simple joke, but instead I was thinking of the terrible euphemism in that panel instead.

3. Pulled off fine. I had no problem understanding what was happening(but if multiple did then you should still think of ways to make things clearer)... my only problem was that it was really conventional. I like the simple point about wrestling in it, but robobo's role in the strip and where it was going was really really obvious. If you're aware of an obvious setup or punchline or whatever while you're doing it, trying to come up with an ending that throws things off a little, to put people like me in their place for thinking they know what you're doing.

4. This one was fine. Only problem is the art.I like the rollover... I also read it first since my mouse happened to be there when I went to the site. "putrid abominations"... had some of the character of the earlier dialogue without bothering me.


So yeah... it could be a pretty good strip. Problems look like missteps rather than very confident executions of really bad jokes, so I guess you just have to keep plugging away and make sure to keep the dialogue under control.

also:

(Like jack for shit, and heck or hell for fuck)

I can understand not cussing, but don't use "heck". It's such an obvious "not a cuss" word... kind of like "darn". Go ahead and use hell.

[Drewbacca]

That's really good feedback.

I like all of this feedback, except the colouring. I love the painterly, almost warped colouring effect. Perspective and everything is something I have to work on, but it's going to take time.

Also, I don't think a lot of back history involving Jimmy and Grace needs to be done immediatly, or set up right now. I could get behind the idea if this was, say, an adventure strip. Right now it's simply a gag-a-day type strip. Continuity is almost a deterent in some instances. Like, it's almost TOO much thought to put in to a comic strip like this because you're complicating things a lot more. For something like the Fury Fox entries in to Tokyo Pop's contest it works, for this I'm not sure. That said, I will be doing a couple of strips with them doing pillow talk and stuff like that to establish relationships, and I'll definitely try to put more thought behind what each character says and why they're saying it from their perspective (even for them to speak more like a couple). But for continuity it's hard, because we're probably going to be driving this bus every which way. In one comic strip Robobo could have a hot girlfriend and the next be married and the next be a widower and in the next have a harpie barking orders at him. We haven't decided yet, really, and it will be decided as the strip matures. (figuritively, of course) It's a challenge to be constantly engaging with something twice a week for years, so I have a lot of time to get better and I take this criticism to heart to get better.

So far some people really like it, like people who don't care or know about form seem to be enjoying the strip (350 views on the Halloween comic, and a request for Mac formatted wallpaper, which shocked me) but I'm not going to let that stop me from getting better. I think it's easy to hide behind numbers and stuff like that, or artistic impression.

Basically, it boils down to some of the stuff I did around the art (like messier line work, painterly shading and so forth) I enjoy and will keep. That being said, I am going to try and get better, such as where to put the shading, properly, throughout all panels of a comic.

[Mzo]

I started reading PvP for the first time ever last night, and I find it to be about a million times better than Penny Arcade.

I like consistent characters with personality and story arcs (on the whole, a more traditional approach to a comic strip) a lot more than the random act of violence, swear word, or video game joke that encompasses the whole of Penny Arcade.

I wouldn't think twice about seeing PvP in a newspaper. It's already far better than the usual tripe we get in those around here.

[rezo]

Also, I don't think a lot of back history involving Jimmy and Grace needs to be done immediatly, or set up right now. I could get behind the idea if this was, say, an adventure strip. Right now it's simply a gag-a-day type strip. Continuity is almost a deterent in some instances.

Not really backstory or a story arc or anything... just use the first few comics to make the relationships clear. It's not much different than making sure someone's name is mentioned when they first show up in a story.

[Bacon McShig]

I wouldn't think twice about seeing PvP in a newspaper. It's already far better than the usual tripe we get in those around here.

Well, Image collects the strips in monthly comic book form.

[MechDeus]

Wait, you liked Van Helsing didn't you?

I thought it was a fun, retarded movie, that obviously had little thought put into it. I enjoyed it, but I wouldn't call it a good movie.

Also, Sinfest. There's another webcomic I find to be consistently awesome.

[Drewbacca]

I thought it was a fun, retarded movie, that obviously had little thought put into it. I enjoyed it, but I wouldn't call it a good movie.

Also, Sinfest. There's another webcomic I find to be consistently awesome.

Sinfest is easily the best Keenspot comic, IMO, but it's no where near as good as PVP or Penny Arcade for me. I don't really care all that much about the struggle for good and evil since I've already chosen my side concerning the matter. Games and antics get me a lot more, although Sinfest has a LOT of clever comics (like the chicken soup and book one near the beginning).

[dave is ok]

I don't really care all that much about the struggle for good and evil since I've already chosen my side concerning the matter.

....