Michael Richards (Kramer) loses it on stage

[Curtis]

My dearest IronPlant,

It wouldn't be the same. It's not like he said "Well, sir, I am quite sorry that I am unable to hold your attention as would a bucket of chicken," he made reference to lynching and he said "nigger." White people can't dance and black people love chicken are pretty, unless done in a clever way, unfunny stereotypes but reference paid to the enslavement and murder of a people is clearly crossing a line.

It is unadvisable for a white American to stop into a reservation and shout about killing ancestors and stealing land.

Likewise, a German approaching a Jew and saying that he should be gassed is clearly a no go.

Even though the people saying these things would have had nothing to do with the acts committed by those who came before and the argument could be made that they didn't really MEAN those things, it's still the ultimate sign of disrespect and callousness that a person of the offending race could show. Do you have to ba an apologist for sins of the past that had nothing to do with you the person? I say no. But rubbing someone's face in their heritage when it involves so much suffering is a far cry away from "lolz your people and my people do certain things differently."

In my personal relationships, I'm pretty un-pc. My friend Travis and I would sometimes mock each other racially. We were comfortable with each other and really just tried to one up the other to get a laugh. Even then, that was a clear line that I had the sense not to cross and didn't need discussion on the matter to understand that some wounds are too deep to heal and that that needs to be, if nothing else, respected.

[Almaci]

I'm Jewish. My people went through some rough shit last century as you might recall. I don't get bent out of shape about Jew jokes.

No one in that club knew any slaves, and no one in their family got lynched. This is a silly rationale. It has nothing to do with that.

I think AstroBlue was more on the mark in pointing out that it's the lack of meaning and connotation that make the word hurtful. It's the fact that it is such and insult, yet all it means is black, therefore making blackness an insult that gives it its sting.

But I think making a racist joke on stage in a comedy club is no worse than Borat talking about Jews in a movie.

Borat is a Jew so its no different then blacks making nigger jokes.

[Fe 26]

*sigh*

I don't think you people read anything I say anymore.

I think we all agreed that calling someone the N word is not the same as cracker. I think I also pointed out, maybe this is the fifth time now, that I wasn't talking about jokes.

I don't know why everyone keeps thinking I'm making that argument. I'm not. I'm guessing maybe one of your stupid co-workers or something said it and you are assuming I feel the same way. I don't. I have never said, nor will I ever say that making silly jokes about how white people walk like this and how black people walk like that, is the same as flat out hate speech.

What I've said is that if a minority member did say something like what Richards said, to a white person, I don't think the public would react as harshly.

Like if someone made fun of a white guy for being a share cropper, and told him to go back to Ireland to starve to death, I don't think the reaction would be as bad. Or if someone picked out some random German and told him he was a murderer and that he should be beat to death for the holocaust.

[Curtis]

I think the point some of us are trying to make to you is that there is nothing that a black comedian could throw out that could be likened to this, be this severe. Except for in bizarro America where blacks owned and lynched whites. There it happens. In fact it just did since everything there is a distorted mirror image of things over here. And people have angular faces.

I should sleep more.

But the point is, the outcry wouldn't be there, to this degree anyway, because whatever words used would not carry the same weight. So your point is kinda null. People flipped out about... the newest black guy on MadTV (name escapes me) when he "showed his true colors" not too long ago but to a far lesser degree and that's really because the words he used are less severe by default.

To look at it objectively, perhaps you're right in a way. Maybe that is slanted. The hate behind each should be looked down upon equally but the word used and reference made carry so much more weight thanks to the history. I guess if you want a white racist's comments to not be viewed as no more severe than a black racist's comments, then you have to explain to the white racist that "nigger" is out of bounds. And that won't happen since they're, you know, racist. The playing field isn't equal when you rub into someone's face that, up until recently, the playing field was so far from equal that he could have been hung for saying the wrong thing.

I makes little to no sense and all the sense in the world at the same time. Just let it go and keep in mind that, because of the history behind the things he said, the words themselves carried more weight than anything that could be said by the opposing racist.

... but it doesn't matter since it's racism and fucking stupid to begin with. I do need more sleep. I somehow typed all this out only just now realizing that I was participating in a debate about who should get shit on more for being RACIST. Jesus.

[Drewbacca]

I don't think you people read...

You people? You racist bastard.

[Fe 26]

tnl isn't a race

it's a nation

retart

[Fe 26]

I somehow typed all this out only just now realizing that I was participating in a debate about who should get shit on more for being RACIST. Jesus.

I think that is ultimately what I don't get about the other side's opinion. More than a few people have made the argument that it is ok for one side to be racist because of the weight of the bad things that happened in the past. It may make me stupid, but I can't grasp the concept of quantifity hate and racism.

I do not believe that wrong things suddenly become right because of numbers.

Besides, aren't you ultimately agreeing with me? i said that people wouldn't care as much if a minority member said the same thing. You pretty much said that was true because the racist words of a those groups would lack the weight of those of Richards.

Do you really not like the fact I don't like that? Are people really going to continue to argue that such a situation is ok? That one group should get a free pass on spreading feelings of separation and hate? That being hurt in the past some how makes it ok to continue spreading hate, even if it is to a lesser degree? Do you people even think about the moral implications of your counter arguments?

[YellerDog]

I think maru and gozen have read up on this, but racism is only as old as the theory of evolution.

It was bolstered up by the rich to give them a excuse to justify the power they had in a time when people were no longer buying into the old excuses. It was shit like "well I have a right to be rich because my genetics put me in a position to be rich. And I have a right to lead because my genetics put me in a position of power."

Are you insane? Seriously?

I think you're confusing racism with eugenics.

[Tenchimo Dos]

An interview with one of his writers stated that Chapelle finally stopped because of the laugh of one of the guys there. He was doing a skit - one of the many racist-tinged ones - and this guy that worked with them laughed incredibly hard at one of the race jokes. The thing is, this guy's laugh had a tendancy to sound really... condesending (something like that) and it just struck Dave as too much and that's when he thought things had gotten too far and disappeared.

I'll try to look that back up, I don't remember what magazine it was in. It's somewhere in my bathroom, I know that much.

Ok, if that is true than I have no respect for Chapelle. He's getting paid millions of dollars, but he couldn't hack it because of some guy's condescending laugh? Weak. Personally, I think the show was cutting into his WoW time.

[Fe 26]

Are you insane? Seriously?

I think you're confusing racism with eugenics.

take it up with gozen