Police: Boy Forced into Sex with Mom

[SpoDaddy]

You are a moron if you believe this. This would make crime worse.

What you, and thousands like you, don't seem to get is why harsh penalty or Hammurabi's justice does not work.
The reason is simple: If I know I'm going to hang, or lose a hand or whatever, when I rob you, this does nothing to eliminate the circumstances leading up to me robbing you. What it does mean, however is that I will kill you when I do rob you, rather than just robbing you.

Same with murder- if I know it's pretty much certain I'll die if caught, I am more likely to attempt to kill any witnesses or the cops who come to arrest me, or anyone who might possibly manage to get me convicted.

So yeah, Cap'n Spo, go get tough on crime. The death penalty is not and has never been an effective deterrent.

You can blather on all you like about what you think would happen with increased use of the death penalty but it doesn't explain why places like Singapore (which use the death penalty liberally) have some of the lowest crime rates in the world. Your argument is a paradox; you say the death penalty is not an effective deterrent but then you also say that criminals will go out of their way to kill everyone that might incriminate them just to avoid it. Either the death penalty scares criminals or it doesn't. Your "It doesn't scare criminals enough to stop them from committing crimes but it scares them enough to turn them into frantic serial killers" theory is really dumb.

[Drewbacca]

I didn't say anything about bypassing the justice system; I said they were subhumans (because they are) and that I couldn't believe anyone didn't want them brutally killed. If you're going to be a liberal douche at least pussify things correctly.

I guess losing your ability to reason and flipping way the fuck out is considered conservative nowadays. Your plays at being Dr. Phil in this thread are hilarious as well.

You're right, that's even better.

All of these are wonderful scenarios. Make lemonade and so forth.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...rom=public_rss

"Their plans went awry when the mom noticed the kidnap victim was simply told to stand in the corner and not say anything until the ransom had been delivered to their next door neighbours." These girls are rocket scientist extortionists. I'm surprised they didn't put on their brothers' pajamas when the cops came and tried to convince them the girls had already fled the county.

[SpoDaddy]

I guess losing your ability to reason and flipping way the fuck out is considered conservative nowadays. Your plays at being Dr. Phil in this thread are hilarious as well.

Perhaps you should focus more on defending your positions because your personal attacks are weak. Use personal attacks if you want to but at least mix in a point. I know your backwards "the criminal is the victim of an unfair society" logic is hard to defend but make a token effort.

[Drewbacca]

I didn't say anything even remotely like that. But please, continue on with your thought provoking insight in to the human condition.

[Vasteel]

You can blather on all you like about what you think would happen with increased use of the death penalty

It's not just what I think. It is what history has demonstrated time and again.

but it doesn't explain why places like Singapore (which use the death penalty liberally) have some of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Sure. Because it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with standard of living or disparity of wealth. Of course not. And just curious, have you ever been there? The "crime rate" is so low because of how little policing and reporting of incidents is done.

No amount of draconian or justified punishment has ever or will ever deter crime as a whole. The problem is we have stubborn fuckwits like you who bullheadedly believe that "an eye for an eye" has any place in creating a safer society, when it has been demonstrated time and time again that it does not. It is honestly as absurd as thinking that music, movies, or video games contribute to crime. What does is attempting to build a more equalitarian and educated populace, where more people can find jobs and enjoy a decent standard of living from them.

[SpoDaddy]

Of course a low standard of living increases crime, but that doesn't mean increasing penalties doesn't lower it. Regardless of how equal and well educated people are there will always be a segment of the population that is willing to break the law and trample others to get ahead. These people only care about themselves, and so the only way to curb their unacceptable behavior is to make it too personally costly to consider. Look at people like Ken Lay, people that have all the education and money in the world but are still willing to ruin other people's lives for a little more. Liberal social reform wouldn't have stopped him but the threat of getting gassed might have. You're focusing on how you wish things were, and your vision is admirable, but I'm focusing on how things actually are.

[icarusfall]

Perhaps you should focus more on defending your positions because your personal attacks are weak. Use personal attacks if you want to but at least mix in a point. I know your backwards "the criminal is the victim of an unfair society" logic is hard to defend but make a token effort.

That's not a personal attack. Someone Me telling you they I'd like to stick a knife in your throat is a personal attack.

Y'know why you don't have a clue about the criminal mind? You very far from it. People like myself (I'm sure V knows what I'm talking about) are a few bad decisions away from prison at any given time. Ever been arrested? Ever been to jail? I don't think so - or you wouldn't act how you do.

What kind of desperation do you know? You know fuck all about what you're saying.

[Drewbacca]

Me and Spent stole lemons and limes from the grocery store the other day. Jealous, icarusfall? There was a really, really good episode of Bullshit last season on how stupid the death penalty is and how countries without the death penalty, on average, have less violent crime than countries that do.

Also guns don't play that big a role. If someone wants to kill someone they'll just use a rock or a knife instead.

[icarusfall]

I don't like it when people entirely disconnected from something act like authorities on it.

I'm not trying to look tough or something.

[Thief Silver]

Of course a low standard of living increases crime, but that doesn't mean increasing penalties doesn't lower it. Regardless of how equal and well educated people are there will always be a segment of the population that is willing to break the law and trample others to get ahead. These people only care about themselves, and so the only way to curb their unacceptable behavior is to make it too personally costly to consider. Look at people like Ken Lay, people that have all the education and money in the world but are still willing to ruin other people's lives for a little more. Liberal social reform wouldn't have stopped him but the threat of getting gassed might have. You're focusing on how you wish things were, and your vision is admirable, but I'm focusing on how things actually are.

Singapore is pretty fucking corrupt if I recall, like, the entire set up there is corrupt, so if by the crime rate is low you mean "The entire city is run by crime therefore it doesn't matter" then you're right.

And they're right it's common sense, now what you need to do is increase fines and the penalties for lower crimes, but using death for anything other than death will only make things worse. If it was anyone else I wouldn't be able to see how that doesn't make sense.