best 2d fighter ever?

[gamevet]

When I first played Street Fighter III : 3rd Strike, I asked myself: Can a 2-d fighter look any better than this? Then I played Alpha 3 on my Dreamcast. The game is just beautiful, and has all the great gameplay of Street Fighter's of the past. My vote for the best 2-d figter ever!

[BioMechanic]

Bio's Favorite 2D Fighter Ever:

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Yie Ar Kung Fu
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I played this game TO DEATH in the arcades, and I'm not ashamed to admit I got a little nostalgia-teary when it came home on Konami Arcade Classics (PSX).

Heh, now the theme's in my head...I love this damn game

[MajinRyu]

Originally posted by gamevet
When I first played Street Fighter III : 3rd Strike, I asked myself: Can a 2-d fighter look any better than this? Then I played Alpha 3 on my Dreamcast. The game is just beautiful, and has all the great gameplay of Street Fighter's of the past. My vote for the best 2-d figter ever!

SFA3 don't look better than SF3:3rd Strike, 3rd Strike is the most redefine 2d fighter and the deepest fighter ever, no matter if is 3D 4D or whatever no fighter is deeper than 3rd Strike

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by MarkRyan
Will somebody please tell me what's so great about Mark of the Wolves. Our resident Neo Geo fans in the Tavern were talking the game up, so when I saw it at GameStop for Dreamcast, I picked it up. My goodness, the game is so simple. It's very straight-forward, and I honestly see nothing that it does better than any Capcom game. Seriously, somebody let me know if I'm missing something, because I see nothing fantastic about it.

Third Strike ain't no gem, either. I suppose I could see how you could have fun with it, what with the innovative parry system and all, but it's the least popular Street Fighter game in arcades these days, and I think that says something (less popular than even Super Turbo). The artwork is fantastic, yes, but the game boils down to very little. I suppose it's a purist's dream, but it's all too boring and slow for me.

Capcom vs. SNK 2 is a pretty damned good game. The wide cast of characters lets you be plenty picky when you're choosing who you want to play as. There's a pretty decent difference in styles between characters, as well - choose Hibiki and just stand still while your opponent tries to break your defense, or choose Blanka and rush that shit down. The many grooves are a good idea, though I think sticking to just three would have made it a lot more newb-friendly. This is a very good contender. I'd probably say my second favorite fighter of all.

But the ultimate fighting game has barely even been mentioned here... And that's disappointing.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is undoubtedly the best fighting game ever made. Now I can understand getting frustrated with the game easily... It's a VERY different game than your typical fighter, and if you wanted to re-classify it entirely, I wouldn't object. It's much more strategic than any other fighting game, much more complex, and ultimately more fun for those that get into it.

Dude, you are the anti-me. Let's take this one at a time.

Garou - Basic?? Play it some more. Cancelling through fakes is the key, as well as getting the Just Defending down. Never mind that, it has the best feel of any fighter ever made. The combos, the dashing, everything feels so smooth. The animation and characters ain't half bad either.

SF3 is nothing special? Alright, I'll take it from this you don't play fighting games that much. Nothing wrong with that. But to the hardcore, there's absolutely nothing deeper than 3rd Strike. Parrying alone takes at least a year to get down perfectly, and creates multiple levels of headgames - do you jump in and attack, or try to fake them out, or maybe parry their anti-air? Do you stop a chain to disrupt your opponent's flow, then stutter with a weaker move just to keep them off balance? Leave them an opening, parry then nail them again to demoralize them? There's also tons to learn with the various supers, and chains, too. Definitely a skill fest. This game's all about playing live foes and trying to out think them as well as out-reflexing them; the one-player mode is a bit slow.

CvS2 - Arrrgghh...this game sucks. Crappy 1993 animations, busted grooves and game-wrecking glitches, never mind poor response, bizarre buffer timing and mangled SNK characters (poor Kyo!). This is the biggest disappointment in fighting games ever to me. At least the cut scenes are fun.

MvC2 - best fighting game ever?? Only if Arena football's better than the NFL. Only if Lite Beer is better than aged scotch. Only if you like repeating the same gay juggles over and over with every character, no defence, the worst music ever and an engine that doesn't actually have that much to it once the eye candy has worn off. If you think this is "strategic" and "complex", play SF3 or VF long enough to really get the nuts & bolts down, you'll probably enjoy it alot more. And yes, I've played TONS of this game, through every iteration. The guys who win all the time just use the same dumb corner traps until you mess up, then juggle you endlessly (double War Machine! SKILL!). Fun for a while, especially with friends who aren't much at fighting games, but most people tend to get bored with it after a bit.

And who said Last Blade 2 for the control? Maybe the DC version's busted, but that wasn't my experience with the game...

My votes?

Third Strike, Mark of the Wolves, and King of Fighters '98. '98 has the best engine of the series (same as '97), the best character selection, and no game-busting 27-hit striker juggle stupidity. Those three are the holy trinity of 2-D fighting, as far as I'm concerned. None of them are perfect, with a few problems in balance here and there, but are all excellent, with flexible fighting systems that take real skill (more than I have, actually) and really reward spending time learning them, as well as having a great feel to the smoove controls.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by MarkRyan

Ask anyone that plays Street Fighter competitively - button mashing will get you much further in Street Fighter 3 than it will in MvC2.

Look, no offence, but you're insane. But let's ask anyway.

Me: Hey, everyone who plays Street Fighter competitvely, will button mashing get you further in SF3 than MvC2?

Everyone Who Plays Street Fighter Competitvely: NO!!!

[MajinRyu]

Originally posted by StriderKyo


Look, no offence, but you're insane. But let's ask anyway.

Me: Hey, everyone who plays Street Fighter competitvely, will button mashing get you further in SF3 than MvC2?
[

HELL NO!!!

[MarkRyan]

Oy, so many things to say, but none of it's worth it here. No one here knows how to play MvC2. What makes Third Strike so deep? The same mind games you have in EVERY fighting game? Sure, there's depth there, but that's about it. The parry system is neat, but it severly restricts the gameplay - there's no such thing as a distance game in Third Strike. MvC2 has it all. If you think there's no strategy, then my friend, you know nothing of the game. Nothing. Go play Third Strike and work hard on poking your opponent to death. It's lots of fun. Meanwhile I'll enjoy the true depths of my fighting games that I'm sure you don't even fathom. Go visit www.Shoryuken.com. Read Seth Killian's collumns when they're back up.

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by MarkRyan
What makes Third Strike so deep? The same mind games you have in EVERY fighting game? Sure, there's depth there, but that's about it. The parry system is neat, but it severly restricts the gameplay -

You know, you're right. The screwy hit detection, the funny-ass unbreakable combos that rely on cheese, the lack of sensical move priority, the hugely unbalanced characters... MvC2 is clearly the winner here. And SFIII:TS having both one of the tightest defense systems in any fighter ever and the greatest hit detection of them all certainly have no effect on it.

there's no such thing as a distance game in Third Strike.

What? Close combat in a hand-to-hand fighter? Surely you jest! We must bring back the full-screen fireball poking and annoyances, definately the greatest of all SF strategies.

And SFIII:TS definately needs their own version of Strikers, so that it too can have 80-100% combos easily accessible by all, as that will surely balance the game out better.

Meanwhile I'll enjoy the true depths of my fighting games that I'm sure you don't even fathom.

The irony of this... too strong... kryptonite...

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by MarkRyan
Oy, so many things to say, but none of it's worth it here. No one here knows how to play MvC2. What makes Third Strike so deep? The same mind games you have in EVERY fighting game? Sure, there's depth there, but that's about it. The parry system is neat, but it severly restricts the gameplay - there's no such thing as a distance game in Third Strike. MvC2 has it all. If you think there's no strategy, then my friend, you know nothing of the game. Nothing. Go play Third Strike and work hard on poking your opponent to death. It's lots of fun. Meanwhile I'll enjoy the true depths of my fighting games that I'm sure you don't even fathom. Go visit www.Shoryuken.com. Read Seth Killian's collumns when they're back up.

Aw, give me a break, man. We've explained exactly why we feel SF3 is a more tactical game, and Apok and myself pretty much broke down why MvC2 is cheesy. You can't just come back and say "oh, you simpletons don't understand my game, I'm leaving." We do understand it. Very well. You're the one who's not offering an explanation of these "true depths that we don't fathom."

Infinite juggles. 100% combos. Yeah, wonderful game.

[MarkRyan]

First of all, infinites. In MvC2, Capcom implemented re-dizzies. Re-dizzies, plus the crazy damage scaling (that makes every consecutive hit in a combo less damaging - it's in all Street Fighters) means that any infinite alone with get you, at the most, 60% health on ONE of the three characters. That's 60% of 300%. So if you want to compare it to Third Strike, that's a whopping 20% combo right now. Ouch. I think in Third Strike a j.Roundhouse, c.Forward XX Hadoken will do about 20%. Yes, fear the cheesy infinite. It ruins the game entirely.

To be honest, the reason I really have no hope for the progression of this conversation is your use of the words "cheesy" and "cheap." If you find effective strategies and techniques to be "cheap," then you're just not playing the same way I am. For me... Everything goes. And that's how it should be. No whining, "OMG, you don't deserve that win, that was cheap!" or "I'm not playing, you're just cheap." That doesn't make playing games fun. And the idea of being "honorable," and refraining from the cheap stuff because it somehow makes you a better player (but only if better = stupid). "Instant Hyper Viper Beams that combo - that's just cheap!" Yeah, and it's also completely avoidable. There is NOTHING in MvC2 that is impossible to beat. Was it really unavoidable when you got your guard broken when your second character dropped in? No. (And if you think the properties behind guard breaking are ONLY in MvC2, then you are mistaken - they apply to all Capcom fighters with air blocking - it's no glitch). What makes MvC2 fun is the strategy. Seeing something new and saying to yourself, "Damn, that's tricky, and hella good. How am I going to beat that?" - and then you come up with a counter. The game is light-years beyond any other fighting game, and like I said before, re-classifying the game as something other than a "fighting game" wouldn't be the stupidest idea I've read on this forum.

Let me know how interested you guys really are in hearing me out. I'll get you guys a link to a video between two top MvC2 players, and I'll analyze it - go step-by-step with what's happening, why it's happening, and what each player is thinking. I'd love to do it if I thought you guys cared. Let me know if you do.