FPSs Console VS PC: Fight!!

[Tsubaki]

I think what the original poster was saying that since you have such high accuracy aiming with a mouse 'n keyboard, that 1p games become incredibly easy, unless programmers make the AI cheap to compensate. That sounds plausible in theory, but I don't know enough about AI to comment.

Anyway, on to the topic. On one hand, using kb/mouse is perfect-precision, once you get used to it. There's no other method that gives this accurate of control for these games.

But on the other, console FPSes are also designed around the fact that you don't have quite as fast reflexes as a kb/mouse, so it's not like console FPSes have much of a problem either.

And... since Golden Eye 007 is only available on consoles, my vote goes to consoles. I've played a few PC FPS like Doom 1-2, Quake 1-3, Duke Nukem 3d, Half-Life, but not one of them could give me what I want, which is just another Golden Eye. I'm told No One Lives Forever will be right up my alley, so I'll have to check that one out someday. But for now, no PC FPS I've played has rivaled the 1p experience in GE.

[Nikorasu]

"They are proven and tested and useful, nay, perfect input devices for that kind of environment"

I'm kinda with you.

They are perfect for inter human action.

I love LANNED mouse based shooters. (Not net based as LAg etc hinders the experience).

I just reckon that Bot AI needs to be addressed better for mouse based opponents.

You couldn't just stick a mouse in your Xbox and get the same experience from Halo. You would OWN the covenant.

[Captain Vegetable]

Originally posted by Nikorasu
So a bot with vastly ramped up accuracy, higher intrinsic armour (ie NOT earned) is NOT cheap? Of course it is. It is also lazy programming.

Bots are not people who can learn and progress. They need a buffer. Call it cheap, if you want, but it's pretty damn fair to me. As I progress I want a challenge, not the same armorless, poor-shot moron I've killing perfectly for the past 59 levels.

Do I suck at FPS? Well I gurn a little, sometimes pull a few odd expressions, but I rarely suck.

If you don't suck then what the Hell is your gripe?

[Luke]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
This shouldn't even be an argument. There is no reason every console shouldn't have a mouse and keyboard. Especially in the light of on-line plans. Who are the console makers kidding here? What the hell good is the internet without a mouse and keyboard? They are proven and tested and useful, nay, perfect input devices for that kind of environment. It just so happens they have proven themselves for gaming as well. And the console makers are afraid to release them because they'll seem too much like a PC?! That's short sighted, stupid, and mis-informed. Gamers know they're not on a PC because the games don't suck and they're actually in a comfortable room on a comfortable sofa. Just release the damn keyboards and mice already!

I'll have to agree with that, Mr. Nappa.

Microsoft not wanting to release at least a keyboard for their Xbox is lucacrous. I would be all over the Xbox with praise if it supported a mouse/keyboard, because there are some impressive fps coming on it.
I can't fathom playing PSO on Xbox with voice chat. Honestly, I don't want to hear these people's voices, especially a sqeaky pubescent teenager's voice coming from an old wizard or a young female mage.

[Nikorasu]

Tsubaki: "I think what the original poster was saying that since you have such high accuracy aiming with a mouse 'n keyboard, that 1p games become incredibly easy, unless programmers make the AI cheap to compensate."


Tsubaki! You can read - my new best friend.

EXACTLY my point. A consoles base input is a controller a method primarily designed for a player to interface with a GAME.

A mouse - primarily designed as a business tool for people to negotiate spreadsheets.

Yes it is great to play FPS with them, but the games never truly adapted to this strange mutation that the mouse underwent.

There is no inertia with a mouse - it is pixel perfect. Controlling the barrell of the gun is pixel accurate. Which AI just isn't equipped to deal with.

[Nikorasu]

"Bots are not people who can learn and progress."

Really Veggie Boy?

Missed Aibo?

Actually Bots can learn 'if adapting subroutines truly counts as learning'.

The fighters in VF4 - Hang on - don't they learn?

"If you don't suck then what the Hell is your gripe?"

ARE YOU READING THE WORDS I AM TYPING IN THIS FORUM?

My gripe is lazy programming. My gripe is that games have not properly accounted for the use of the mouse.

My gripe is also with people who don't read.

[Captain Vegetable]

Originally posted by Nikorasu
Tsubaki: "I think what the original poster was saying that since you have such high accuracy aiming with a mouse 'n keyboard, that 1p games become incredibly easy, unless programmers make the AI cheap to compensate."


Tsubaki! You can read - my new best friend.

EXACTLY my point. A consoles base input is a controller a method primarily designed for a player to interface with a GAME.

A mouse - primarily designed as a business tool for people to negotiate spreadsheets.

Yes it is great to play FPS with them, but the games never truly adapted to this strange mutation that the mouse underwent.

There is no inertia with a mouse - it is pixel perfect. Controlling the barrell of the gun is pixel accurate. Which AI just isn't equipped to deal with.

Hmmm...I suppose you're correct.

[Captain Vegetable]

Originally posted by Nikorasu
"Bots are not people who can learn and progress."

Really Veggie Boy?

Missed Aibo?

Actually Bots can learn 'if adapting subroutines truly counts as learning'.

The fighters in VF4 - Hang on - don't they learn?

"If you don't suck then what the Hell is your gripe?"

ARE YOU READING THE WORDS I AM TYPING IN THIS FORUM?

My gripe is lazy programming. My gripe is that games have not properly accounted for the use of the mouse.

My gripe is also with people who don't read.

Eat me, crankshaft. My gripe is with people who can't communicate their ideas correctly and then blame those that misunderstand them. Piss off.

I might agree with you, but I don't like you.

[Nikorasu]

Captain Vegetable -

I really enjoy using a mouse on FPS. I also enjoy controller based ones too.

Yet when it comes to where the AI is being done right - a key point of a game, I believe that console shooters are getting it right.

Mouse based ones are more frenetic, at times more enjoyable (though not exclusively so). I just want to see some decent advances in bot AI in based shooters.

Primarily so I don't have to hope I won't be railed in the craziest of places.

[Nikorasu]

"Eat me, crankshaft. My gripe is with people who can't communicate their ideas correctly and then blame those that misunderstand them. Piss off." Quote from Da Veg


Quote from my original post:
"One player games on a PC however are truely flawed - the 'hyper natural' advantage using a mouse for aiming gives a player means that developers have to develop AI that CHEATS in order to create a challenge for the player. In comparison games like Goldeneye reign in a player somewhat making for a 'more natural' one player game."

It aint hard to understand. I can't communicate my ideas? Don't make me laugh.

And as for you not liking me?

I can live with that.

Damn I love this flirting.