All GOOD RPGs vs. Final Fantasy

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by MechDeus

The main problem with Xenogears mech-jumping (easily the worst part of the game, though some claim the final dungeon is) is that in an attempt to hide the battle screen loading slightly, it actually begins loading right before a battle activates, but also deactivates your ability to jump while doing that. A rather bad flaw that really kills a couple areas, though aside from Babel I didn't mind it.

AAGGHHH!!! Babel took me like two hours, although it felt like two days. That's exaclty what I was talking about.

I rather like the battle system, I think using the combo attacks is fun, as well as learning all of them (the final ones are incredible!).

The trouble is, you have to sit there and watch them over and over, and they all go on for 10-15 seconds, which leads to 2 minute long random battles. This is especially bad after Legend of Dragoon, which has almost the exact same combo scheme, except you have to input each hit in the combo at a certain time. That game also shows you how many times you need to do that combo to earn the next one, which keeps you going. But with Xeno, add in 2-3 random battles per screen/section, and you get some really annoying dungeons. Sometimes I wish they'd just get back to the cutscenes. Good bosses, though.

And, um, to just make your life easier, I wouldn't count too much on Elly helping you later on. So don't worry about building her up excessively.

Aw, you bastard, are you spoiling the story for me? You don't know what it's been like for me trying to avoid spoilers for this game. Like those people who try to go all day without hearing the score from the world cup games, except for months on end.

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by StriderKyo
Aw, you bastard, are you spoiling the story for me?

Nope. She just isn't much help later on, and you'll have plenty to choose from that are far better. Use her, but don't count on her.

God, I love going through that game. Many hate the second disc (you'll see why), though I can help explain why things are the way they are on there and various tidbits about the circumstances regarding the game if you'd like. But not until after you're done. Keep me up to tabs with this, I love discussing Xenogears, and it's always nifty talking to those going through the first time.

That game also shows you how many times you need to do that combo to earn the next one, which keeps you going.

Well, it's not hard figuring them out in Xenogears. Just look at how many maximum points you have, figure out all the different ways you can create a combo ending with the "X" button, and keep doing them until you start getting the points to earn them to actually use them.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by MechDeus

Well, it's not hard figuring them out in Xenogears. Just look at how many maximum points you have, figure out all the different ways you can create a combo ending with the "X" button, and keep doing them until you start getting the points to earn them to actually use them.

I didn't mean that it was hard, rather LoD keeps you involved in the game (there's a square in the middle of the screen, and another spinning square comes and overlays that one; you have to hit the right button at the exact time they overlap, or the combo ends) while Xeno just makes you push triangle-square-X and watch Citan pummel some worthless enemy for a half a minute. LoD also shows you how many times you need to succesfully pull it off (you'll always pull it off succesfully in Xeno unlesss you're an idiot) to earn a new one on the status screen; as near as I can tell Xeno doesn't do the same thing, you just get a new "point" at a certain level.

I do like how you can save up points in the boss battles, though, which is the only real reason to not just do your most powerful move over and over.

[taloony]

Take for example Shadow Hearts. Very cool rpg, had bad luck to come out right before FFX hit the streets. And was immediately compared to FFX, and bashed by the reviewers, given less than stellar score and avoided by mainstream gamers

*snaps*

Sorry despair, I know you really love this game (as evidenced by numerous posts) but you've plugged it so much I've just got to comment on it.

The game is drivel, pure and simple. I really wanted to like it, as the time setting fascinates me to no end. So much so, in fact, that I picked it up the day it came out, trading my GBA and a copy of Golden Sun towards it. This is one of the WORST mistakes I think I've ever made in regards to gaming.

The lead character (Yuri?) seems to me to be a mix of Squall and Cloud, one of which (Squall) that I loathed.
Fighting, well, I do like the Judgement ring, as it makes things sort of interesting, but I don't remember seeing a monster palette that wasn't reused. Even some of the bosses were seen later in the game in this way!

D, I'd like to see the reason behind why you like this game, as opposed to just "I love it." (That's much simplified, of course)

[Frogacuda]

Originally posted by StriderKyo
I also don't get where you're coming from with the "they all have the same story" angle, because they don't. You get Chocobos, airships, potions and Cid in all of them, but the plots themselves differ radically from installment to installment, except for the "you must defeat an evil empire" part.

I guess all I can say is I understand the reflex to reject something that's often praised by clueless 12 year olds as being the only worthwhile game on earth, but that doesn't mean they (most of them) aren't awesome.

I never said they all had the same story. I just find their stories to be melodramatic and unappealing. That doesn't mean rehashed or generic.

And I don't dislike them by reflex or because I'm trying to be "niche". I played all of them up to 9, including the japanese releases. I gave them their fair chance. I even enjoyed some of them (FF3jap is one of most underappreciated 8-bit RPGs), but none of them really blew me away, and in the context of all of the innovative progressive RPGs from companies like Tri Ace, Gamearts, and Wolf Team (Yeah, I know it's mostly Tri-Ace members. So sue) the series just seems far less viable. When FF and Phantasy Star were the only RPGs in town, I would play a FF (after I'd finished the lates PS), but with Valkyrie Profile, Tales of Eternia, Grandia, and Star Ocean around... I just don't have the time to waste on FF any more.

[Dyne]

gawd...glancing through this thread makes me realise how many rpg's i still need to

-play
-finish
-buy

[Captain Vegetable]

Hmmm.

I realize I could be throwing the baby out with the bathwater concerning the Final Fantasy games. I do play them. Hell! I even enjoy playing them. As games, however, they just don't hold up to the rest. Beautiful? Yep. Best character design since...umm...really good character design? It's got that too. And I'll even say that inspite of the story following the same arcs, it's still pretty involving. But if given the choice of Final Fantasy or, say, Valkyrie Profile, I'm choosing VP. In my opinion, the visuals in VP are miles above Final Fantasy (though I'll argue FF graphics topple just about any other 3D game). The 2D environments are just amazing. The battle system, the 2D-platformer feel of the dungeons, the story, the customization; these are all things that I feel FF lacks. I love Final Fantasy 9. I really do. But if I had to trash it to keep Star Ocean 2, it'd be gone in a heart beat. SO2 is a better game.

And for all you people who disagree with Final Fantasy following the same story arcs, at least throughout the 32-bit to recent era, here:

FF7 = An otherworldy being (Jenova/Sepheroth) comes to town and wants to destroy the planet because the people living on it "aren't worthy." And in the process gain ultimate power (Mako, Black Materia).

FF8 = An otherworldly being (Adel's possessing spirit) comes to town and wants to destroy the planet because the people living on it "aren't worthy." And in the process gain ultimate dominion (Time Compression).

FF9 = An otherworldly being (Garland/Kuja) comes to town and wants to destroy the people living on the planet because they, themselves, are more deserving of the planet as a habitat. And in the process gain ultimate dominion (ruling the planet).

I can even make the jump from 16-bit to 32-bit. Care to see?

[Frogacuda]

Mmm... I love how Tri-Ace has become the antisquare.

[Punky Skunk]

Is that why tri-Ace is such garbage? Seriously, what has tri-Ace done besides Star Ocean 2 and Valkyrie Profile?

I haven't played VP, but from the SO2 experience, I'm a little cautious to throw $30 at it (I just borrowed SO2, thank God).

[dog$]

Please don't bother.

Even if you found a special VP that gave you blowjobs on command, I don't forsee you saying anything positive (or correct) about it. And from what I could tell the US voices are just as poor.