All GOOD RPGs vs. Final Fantasy

[Six]

Yeah.

WTF are you guys smoking? You may not like the Sony installments, but how the hell can anyone say 4 was better than 6?

It's not the fact that VII-XI are on systems other than those made by Nintendo. It is simply that they are poorly designed games.

IV had many features that I feel are necessary in an RPG and many of those were lost in the transition from IV-VI (via V). The first and foremost is the 'improved' battle system present most obviously in VI and later. The fact that every character in the game can learn every spell and almost every weapon/armor can be equipped makes it pointless to have anything but four identical characters. Why even change the sprites?

I also dislike the number of party members you have access to during the battles. IVs use of a five party member battle system allowed for greater strategy. Each member had his/her place and when you were without them the battle became increasingly difficult. For example, Rosa dies and your options for ressurection and healing decrease dramatically. Were it V (somewhat) or VI+ any member could heal and cast life and everything else. What point does Rosa serve then?

FFIV also employed a very unique spell timing system. Those that have played it know that things were not cast when your 'turn' arrived ala VI, but it was based on a mysterious (at least to me) system of time between spell castings. The first time to cast a spell always took the longest. The more you cast it the faster you could do so. Very interesting and something I want to see more of.

I'll agree the story was better in VI, and the graphics of course and some of the score but the battle system (which is one of the most important parts of an RPG for me) was and remains totally broken.

I'm at work or I would go on and on and on.

I just think that IV is the height of the series and if Squaresoft continues on it's current course of making rehashed broken junk it will remain the last great Final Fantasy.

6

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by Rob
I haven't played VP, but from the SO2 experience, I'm a little cautious to throw $30 at it (I just borrowed SO2, thank God).

Hmm... if only I could think of a place that might actually have VP for rent.

I'm not saying you'll find it a religious experience or anything, I certainly know don't your tastes through and through, but it should at least be very interesting to see how things can be done completely differently.

But I love it, so I'm happy with that.

[Punky Skunk]

To be honest, I really enjoyed SO2 disc 1. At one point I played it for 16 hours in one day, which is very unusual for me. Disc 2 really fell apart, though, and that's what ruined it for me.

What makes me leery about Valkyrie Profile is the (mis)use of mythology, which is getting a bit tired in RPGs, and the cries of innovation for innovation's sake. And I just haven't been too thrilled with any RPGs in a while. What I find alluring is the prospect of nice 2D graphics and a good soundtrack (hopefully more melody oriented, unlike SO2).

Is the battle system like a typical RPG or an action game? That's something I've been confused about.

[Captain Vegetable]

Originally posted by Rob
Is the battle system like a typical RPG or an action game?

Yes.

[Punky Skunk]

Yes what, clown boy? Typical RPG or action game?

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by Rob
Is the battle system like a typical RPG or an action game? That's something I've been confused about.

I'll do my best to describe it:

You have four characters immediately accessible in-battle. Each of these four characters is assigned to one of the face buttons, based on their location, and when you press a characters button, he/she attacks the enemy. Each side has their own turn, and you can use your attacks however you want during your turn. If you want someone to use an item to heal or revive, they won't be able to attack that turn. Otherwise, it'll be focused on creating combos.

Example: You have a magic user in back, and three melee fighters (two fast and one slow) in front. Cast a spell from your magic user (which will reach the enemy first), and as that fires you activate your slow melee fighter, followed by quicker ones. The timing there will allow your slow fighter to connect his hit as the magic spell finishes, and as he's done hitting, the faster attackers you activated last will come in for their hits. If attacks come simultaneously, one of them will miss, so you have to watch your timing. If your attacks chain together enough times to fill up the combo meter, you'll have access to Finishers, which deal additonal damage (nessecary for boss battles). Each Finisher (like a seperate special move) will add to the combo meter as well, but also costs a certain amount of the combo meter to activate. If you use the moves in such a way that your combo meter stays high, you can activate Finishers from your entire party. These also help because extra-long combos often net you extra items and experience.

Now, you obtain MP (which stands for Materialize Points in VP) by doing well, and you use those to create better armor and weapons (no shopping in towns). Better weapons will give you access to more damage and more attacks per round, so you can end up having one character doling out five attacks in a round, comboing with everyone else. Human-created weapons (there are divine items and mudane items) are often slightly better then divine weapons, but always have a 5% chance of breaking, so you need to watch those carefully if you want to use them. Having them break in the middle of a boss battle is never good.

Increasing your characters agility increases their ability to dodge, which comes in really handy as you can also obtain Counterattack. Get your characters with high agility and Counterattack, and many enemy attacks will completely miss and allow you a chance to deal out some extra damage. However, you must activate the counterattack manually, and sometimes it's a bad idea to do so and will only result in you getting hit anyway.

Alright, that should cover it fairly well. Any other questions?

[MechDeus]

Also, a bit extra:

Normally, you have a main map which you fly over. Cities and dungeons are sprinkled throughout, and you can access any on the map. Enter and it's like a 2D side-scroller. You can run, jump, and if you're in dungeons, slash. There are tunnels where you can move "in" and "out" of the screen onto different planes. While in dungeons, all enemies are represented by a different enemy graphic based on their strength. The enemies usually approach you, and you can slash at them with your sword. If you connect, you get first attack. If they connect, it's random (favoring them).

[Frogacuda]

Originally posted by Rob What makes me leery about Valkyrie Profile is the (mis)use of mythology, which is getting a bit tired in RPGs, and the cries of innovation for innovation's sake. And I just haven't been too thrilled with any RPGs in a while. What I find alluring is the prospect of nice 2D graphics and a good soundtrack (hopefully more melody oriented, unlike SO2).

Is the battle system like a typical RPG or an action game? That's something I've been confused about.

VP is more closely based on Norse Mythology than any game before it. It's not that cartoony Tales of Phantasia/Record of Lodoss Tolkeinized version, it's very... adult, for lack of a better term. The innovation really isn't for it's own sake, it's not an attempt to change the genre as a whole, but more to realize a particular concept of theirs which is very different. You'll either love the gameplay, or resent the fact that it is a demanding game and one at which you can actually fail. It's out there, and for that reason it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but it does what it sets out to do perfectly.

As for the music, it is very different from SO2, but distincly Sakuraba. It's much more down beat, and very haunting and atmospheric. It's somewhat melodic but not the kind of thing you'll hum along to. I really think it's top notch, but its designed to be part of the game and suck you in more than stand out. Valkyrie Profile is a very dark, very sad game, and the soundtrack reflects that.

As for the combat system it's neither traditonal nor action based. It's turn based, but with real-time combos. It's a fairly complex system that relies havily on timing and planning. The basic concept is that you have all the characters availible for a given turn and you can signal any of them to attack with the press of a button. You can have one character attack while anothe is attacking as well. It's all realtime. In this way you can fake out an enemy by sending in a slow character to attack high, causing the enemy to block high, but before the character arrives, trigger a low attack from a fast character that will get their first, hit the enemy and break the enemies guard, allowing for the high attack to make contact. Building up damaging combos triggers supers as well. It's a really neat system. My main complaint with it is that the battles run on the long side