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Thread: The Obama Presidency

  1. I"m not scared of terrorists or any other nation. We don't need to increase our defense budget. No one's a threat to us, we have the best weaponry in the world, and we still insist on buying and building more bombs.
    Boo, Hiss.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by icarusfall View Post
    No one's a threat to us
    I agree with your point of view and most everyone else's that we should be spending our resources on more meaningful things, but defense budgets probably go to other things besides bombs. Developing new technology (e.g., drones, armor, satellites, etc) is expensive (corruption within government contracts is a different can of worms, but still expensive).

    Who knows? Maybe those funds go to paying off tribal leaders in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan for information leading to the capture or destruction of those people whose only goal in life is to plot some sort of attack on us. It's happened before on American soil and you can be assured they'll try to do it again. To say there's no threat to us is a bit naive. imo.
    "To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often." -- Winston Churchill

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    No. What we should be doing is building shit. Roads, bullet-trains, skyscrapers, whole cities, spaceships, I don't give a fuck. If we're spending money we should do it on shit that will create jobs in one of the hardest hit and most accessible industries (construction) on stuff that will have long-term value and generate revenue. That's how you get out of a depression.

    Defense spending doesn't need to be increased, it needs to be re-allocated. Stop fucking outsourcing shit to companies that are ripping us off. We flush insane amounts of money on defense that are just wasted. Don't throw more money at it until you plug up the leaks.
    I agree with your second argument, but think it's applicable to the first. Many other areas, in fact; throwing money at things like public schools without really addressing the way current funds are wasted will never fix the situation. Same goes with construction - the industry there (my dad, uncle, and late granddad all know) is rife with corruption. So throwing money at contractors to tell them to build something is no sure-fire fix for the working man.

    Notwithstanding that it could be beneficial in a lot of ways too, but that's where I see the gamble. For as many benefits as any one of these programs promise there's just as many ways it could fail or be taken advantage of. And I don't see anyone who's pushing for this bill in the government exercising a fair amount of caution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diff-chan View Post
    Careful. We're talking about games here. Fun isn't part of it.

  4. Advocate shows how out of touch some people are when he quotes someone saying "stop throwing money to the companies that are ripping us off and put it where it needs to go" acting like it's a bad thing.

    I'm not better with some of my ignorant statements either; especially with my naivety in the financial area, and I'm glad Gooch is starting to post that info that is beneficial, I'm also trying to figure out some good books to read if anyone has any suggestions; mainly about country finances; things on depression and recession.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by TODE View Post
    Like they say, it's really just a modern version of notecards... though I suppose he could just have notes he looks at from his BlackBerry.
    No, he couldn't, because he needs to read his speeches verbatim off of something as he gives them. That's not what notecards are for.

  6. There's a lot of Great Depression books out there. I read the Forgotten Man a while back and it was a good examination of how the New Deal Policies did not really help.
    You sir, are a hideous hermaphroditical character which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bbobb View Post
    There's a lot of Great Depression books out there. I read the Forgotten Man a while back and it was a good examination of how the New Deal Policies did not really help.
    The Wall Street Journal recently ran an article on the subject.

    How Government Prolonged the Depression

    The New Deal is widely perceived to have ended the Great Depression, and this has led many to support a "new" New Deal to address the current crisis. But the facts do not support the perception that FDR's policies shortened the Depression, or that similar policies will pull our nation out of its current economic downturn.

    The goal of the New Deal was to get Americans back to work. But the New Deal didn't restore employment. In fact, there was even less work on average during the New Deal than before FDR took office. Total hours worked per adult, including government employees, were 18% below their 1929 level between 1930-32, but were 23% lower on average during the New Deal (1933-39). Private hours worked were even lower after FDR took office, averaging 27% below their 1929 level, compared to 18% lower between in 1930-32.

    Even comparing hours worked at the end of 1930s to those at the beginning of FDR's presidency doesn't paint a picture of recovery. Total hours worked per adult in 1939 remained about 21% below their 1929 level, compared to a decline of 27% in 1933. And it wasn't just work that remained scarce during the New Deal. Per capita consumption did not recover at all, remaining 25% below its trend level throughout the New Deal, and per-capita nonresidential investment averaged about 60% below trend. The Great Depression clearly continued long after FDR took office.

    Why wasn't the Depression followed by a vigorous recovery, like every other cycle? It should have been. The economic fundamentals that drive all expansions were very favorable during the New Deal. Productivity grew very rapidly after 1933, the price level was stable, real interest rates were low, and liquidity was plentiful. We have calculated on the basis of just productivity growth that employment and investment should have been back to normal levels by 1936. Similarly, Nobel Laureate Robert Lucas and Leonard Rapping calculated on the basis of just expansionary Federal Reserve policy that the economy should have been back to normal by 1935.

    So what stopped a blockbuster recovery from ever starting? The New Deal. Some New Deal policies certainly benefited the economy by establishing a basic social safety net through Social Security and unemployment benefits, and by stabilizing the financial system through deposit insurance and the Securities Exchange Commission. But others violated the most basic economic principles by suppressing competition, and setting prices and wages in many sectors well above their normal levels. All told, these antimarket policies choked off powerful recovery forces that would have plausibly returned the economy back to trend by the mid-1930s.

    The most damaging policies were those at the heart of the recovery plan, including The National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), which tossed aside the nation's antitrust acts and permitted industries to collusively raise prices provided that they shared their newfound monopoly rents with workers by substantially raising wages well above underlying productivity growth. The NIRA covered over 500 industries, ranging from autos and steel, to ladies hosiery and poultry production. Each industry created a code of "fair competition" which spelled out what producers could and could not do, and which were designed to eliminate "excessive competition" that FDR believed to be the source of the Depression.

    These codes distorted the economy by artificially raising wages and prices, restricting output, and reducing productive capacity by placing quotas on industry investment in new plants and equipment. Following government approval of each industry code, industry prices and wages increased substantially, while prices and wages in sectors that weren't covered by the NIRA, such as agriculture, did not. We have calculated that manufacturing wages were as much as 25% above the level that would have prevailed without the New Deal. And while the artificially high wages created by the NIRA benefited the few that were fortunate to have a job in those industries, they significantly depressed production and employment, as the growth in wage costs far exceeded productivity growth.

    These policies continued even after the NIRA was declared unconstitutional in 1935. There was no antitrust activity after the NIRA, despite overwhelming FTC evidence of price-fixing and production limits in many industries, and the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 gave unions substantial collective-bargaining power. While not permitted under federal law, the sit-down strike, in which workers were occupied factories and shut down production, was tolerated by governors in a number of states and was used with great success against major employers, including General Motors in 1937.

    The downturn of 1937-38 was preceded by large wage hikes that pushed wages well above their NIRA levels, following the Supreme Court's 1937 decision that upheld the constitutionality of the National Labor Relations Act. These wage hikes led to further job loss, particularly in manufacturing. The "recession in a depression" thus was not the result of a reversal of New Deal policies, as argued by some, but rather a deepening of New Deal polices that raised wages even further above their competitive levels, and which further prevented the normal forces of supply and demand from restoring full employment. Our research indicates that New Deal labor and industrial policies prolonged the Depression by seven years.

    By the late 1930s, New Deal policies did begin to reverse, which coincided with the beginning of the recovery. In a 1938 speech, FDR acknowledged that the American economy had become a "concealed cartel system like Europe," which led the Justice Department to reinitiate antitrust prosecution. And union bargaining power was significantly reduced, first by the Supreme Court's ruling that the sit-down strike was illegal, and further reduced during World War II by the National War Labor Board (NWLB), in which large union wage settlements were limited by the NWLB to cost-of-living increases. The wartime economic boom reflected not only the enormous resource drain of military spending, but also the erosion of New Deal labor and industrial policies.

    By 1947, through a combination of NWLB wage restrictions and rapid productivity growth, we have calculated that the large gap between manufacturing wages and productivity that emerged during the New Deal had nearly been eliminated. And since that time, wages have never approached the severely distorted levels that prevailed under the New Deal, nor has the country suffered from such abysmally low employment.

    The main lesson we have learned from the New Deal is that wholesale government intervention can -- and does -- deliver the most unintended of consequences. This was true in the 1930s, when artificially high wages and prices kept us depressed for more than a decade, it was true in the 1970s when price controls were used to combat inflation but just produced shortages. It is true today, when poorly designed regulation produced a banking system that took on too much risk.

    President Barack Obama and Congress have a great opportunity to produce reforms that do return Americans to work, and that provide a foundation for sustained long-run economic growth and the opportunity for all Americans to succeed. These reforms should include very specific plans that update banking regulations and address a manufacturing sector in which several large industries -- including autos and steel -- are no longer internationally competitive. Tax reform that broadens rather than narrows the tax base and that increases incentives to work, save and invest is also needed. We must also confront an educational system that fails many of its constituents. A large fiscal stimulus plan that doesn't directly address the specific impediments that our economy faces is unlikely to achieve either the country's short-term or long-term goals.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by SpoDaddy View Post
    No, he couldn't, because he needs to read his speeches verbatim off of something as he gives them. That's not what notecards are for.
    Guess that's why I never got better than a B- in Speech!
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Thief Silver View Post
    Advocate shows how out of touch some people are when he quotes someone saying "stop throwing money to the companies that are ripping us off and put it where it needs to go" acting like it's a bad thing.

    I'm not better with some of my ignorant statements either; especially with my naivety in the financial area, and I'm glad Gooch is starting to post that info that is beneficial, I'm also trying to figure out some good books to read if anyone has any suggestions; mainly about country finances; things on depression and recession.
    and you think that last post was my true feelings? you serious?

    gtfo here! lol. dude you don't fucking know me. So, don't fucking assume you fucking do. Kiss my asian ass you jackoff.
    I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.

  10. You mean you totting the republican line every chance you get, then quoting something incorrectly in response to someone's post? What's the point of that horrible post then if it's not your true feelings, to start a pointless argument?

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