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Thread: Here There Be Dragons (official Reign of Fire thread)

  1. Well that bloated fanboy Harry Knowles (proprietor of AICN) has posted his RoF review:
    REIGN OF FIRE review

    Boy, I was nervous going into this one. Last night I got in two negative reviews for REIGN OF FIRE that I didn’t even want to read, so I tossed them to Moriarty to put up. I didn’t want to go into REIGN OF FIRE with anybody’s negative B.S.

    I love the concepts of dragons, in fact in my living room is a museum mounted dragon head by Johnny Fischner – who is a well known creator of Dinosaur Replicas for Museums all over the world…. Meanwhile upon the opposite wall is a latex dragon hand puppet created by special effects artist Paul Smith (Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 & Blood Simple) for an unfilmed fantasy project from the eighties. In my room I have that gorgeous toy of Harryhausen’s classic dragon from SEVENTH VOYAGE OF SINBAD, but unfortunately… my favorite cinematic dragon… Vermithraax Pagorative doesn’t have a toy I can have. Matthew Robbins’ classic DRAGONSLAYER was my all-time favorite dragon movie.

    Why?

    Matthew took the concept seriously. What would a world be like that had beasts so much more powerful, with enough intelligence to dominate and sublimate the will of man into a state of servitude? By blending a certain amount of Shirley Jackson’s terrifying THE LOTTERY into a story of a kingdom’s unholy bargain with a beast… well, Matthew managed to really make a dragon film that had more going on than just a few effects shots.

    Now, the last major Dragon movie to come out was DRAGONHEART and I wanted to love that excruciating piece of shit, but… ultimately it was a collection of curdled corn in a mass of digested wretchedly heinous stomach rot. I loathed that film. I dreamt of what that film could have and should have been, but alas… it was a collection of cool trailers of beautiful visual effects work with zero characters and zero plot and zero social ramifications for the existence of Dragons.

    And the last Dragon film was DUNGEONS & DRAGONS which was really deliriously awful in the silliest of stoner drunk glee. “Throw me the Rod” indeed… Hilariously incompetent as to be near a work of demented genius. Truly a love / hate bi-polar film experience.

    Then I started hearing about REIGN OF FIRE. I wasn’t familiar with the screenwriters… Gregg Chabot and Kevin Peterka… They hadn’t done anything that I knew about. Rumors about an insanely long 240 page script were floating about, and the director… Rob Bowman, well I loved his X-FILES series work, but that feature film of his was crippled by its story being so interwoven into the plot of the series that it was hard to see it as anything more than… just another episode. For me, as a feature film director, Rob Bowman had yet to be proven.

    Then there was the casting of the two leads. Christian Bale and Matthew McConaughey. Now I happen to like both of these guys, but neither of them necessarily scream DRAGON movie material. As those first shots of Matthew came online… I thought, “What a fucking weird look!” I mean, what was that? Some sort of Russian dock worker look from around the time of the Revolution meets George Clooney’s Seth Gecko tattoo on spread mode?

    Next I saw that first REIGN OF FIRE trailer and I wanted to believe. I did. The first reviews started coming in like a heroin drip… giving me this glazed over look of gleeful anticipation. The couple of negative reviews that first came in seemed to come from people that I would hate in the real world. People complaining about the film taking its concept seriously. Folks being upset that the film focused on characters first and dragons second. All of this was getting me more excited.

    So last night when those two reviews came in… I didn’t want to hear it. I wasn’t about going to let someone plant seeds of shit in my head. I wanted to go in believing in this film, and let the flick either live up or fail on its own.

    First, this movie takes itself and its premise more seriously than even Matthew Robbins’ DRAGONSLAYER. In that film, I was always a little upset by the attempts at humor. They always seemed to be trying to release the tension… make light in a dark situation. Someone was going to die, this was a town living in fear and this dragon wanted a fleshy sacrifice. Stripping the poor assistant of his clothes, balancing the egg, the goofy firework entrances… all of that just kinda pissed me off.

    Here, anytime folks are trying to ‘lighten up’ something, someone comes along and reminds them of their place in the world. Their prayers are about hiding. Their lives about surviving, not moving forward. Dragons have taken over the world, and men have become ants digging tunnels into the earth to escape from the wrath. Here they study these beasts to learn how to survive. How do they reproduce, how do they eat, how is the fire made… all those questions are answered, and two philosophies are born.

    Out last the bastards.

    Kill the bastards.

    That’s the situation. You have a community led by Christian Bale’s Quinn that has dug in deep beneath an old castle and decided to just wait it out. They have early warning systems, meager crops and bed time stories taken from media from their own youth. These folks are trying to make a go at not only living through this thing, but surviving with humanity intact. Next to Bale’s wonderful turn in EMPIRE OF THE SUN, this is my favorite work of his. It may not be as patently showy as his turn as Patrick Bateman, it is however, not as painfully one-dimensional either. This is a man that has issues going all the way back. He’s a man in pain, truly doing what he believes in. Watch his eyes as he leads the children in their night time prayer early on. Watch them the second time he does it. It is that difference in doing the same scene twice that makes him and this character so damn good. Great job Christian!

    Then you have the ragtag group of Americans led by Matthew McConaughey’s Van Zan. They hunt and kill dragons, and they have a rather strong belief that they can end the madness that has swept over this world. Anybody that has ever written McConaughey off as some naked bongo playing stoner… they need to see this movie and a little film he did earlier this year called FRAILTY. Matthew is stretching out. His Van Zan is absolutely iconic. He eats his scenes up, there is an intensity that comes out of his every seethingly pissed off moment that is just pure testosterone driven anger. I’d give anything if Hayden Christensen’s Anakin can get these looks down for the next chapter of the Star Wars saga. He has moments throughout this film that just lay it on. I mean, when he crashes that party in the castle… DEAR GOD. If you don’t feel shame and utter contempt for every last person partying when he’s through… then I repeat Van Zan’s last line there, “You disgust me!” Van Zan is swinging balls against brick walls cool. I mean just an awesome character, pulled off by an actor that is ready to really explode big time. Dear God… Please cast him as John Carter of Mars. God, are you listening? Please cast him as John Carter of Mars. Thank you.

    Now what type of Dragon movie is this?

    Well, this is all about the characters’ points of view. The dragons drop down out of clouds, you hear them above the smoke, and from time to time they pop out… and if they do, you’re dead. They are simply a force of nature. You don’t see the great war of the dragons against man. You never see the grand cities of mankind fall. You see pictures in TIME and other magazines, but that’s because this is Christian Bale’s story.

    Early on in the film he is telling the castle’s children a story from his youth as a legend to inspire. Meanwhile, the story we are told over the course of the film is a new legend about a boy who grew up afraid having to face his fears and be the man he never thought he was. It really is a simple story. A tough story. One that takes many lives and scorches the earth for generations, but it is a story about endings and new beginnings. A story of cycles of life on earth and how man will survive these cycles despite the stupidity of some men and the wrath of nature itself.

    Now, THE SECRET LAB… Who the hell are you and how did you become so fucking badass? The visual effects company responsible for this film is something called… THE SECRET LAB. All I can say is that these bastards know what the hell they are doing. HOLY SHIT the effects work in this movie is awesome.

    It actually reminded me of Alex Ross’ paintings in a way. That dream of reality. The attention to the way light bounces off of shoulders, the way embers bend to gusts from wings, the light coming through the membranes of a dragon’s wing while it is pulling a Chernabog upon its own night on Bald Mountain. That one extended holding Dragon hover shot as it lays waste… just ball gigglingly awesome. I mean so good it makes you want to baste in your own drool juices cool.

    This isn’t a film about anything more than just being a great genre film. This is the very best DRAGON movie ever made. That isn’t faint praise, because DRAGONSLAYER is a wonderful film, but this movie owns it hands down. The acting, writing, directing, effects, music… Every single last iota of this film owns.

    Tonally from beginning to end it knows exactly what movie it is and it never for a second loses track of that. There are no silly stupid annoyingly fucked up moments of distraction that makes you think for a second that this director didn’t know exactly what he was doing. This isn’t a movie about being cute. This isn’t about winking at the audience in painfully self-aware moments. This is a movie about man’s last days on earth, and how he fights to make sure they aren’t exactly that. It is an intimate character story set within a nightmare situation. This is a dragon movie that we’ve been waiting for. This is a summer movie that not only kicks ass in this summer, but would have in any of the summers that I’ve been going to summer movies. I LOVED THIS MOVIE.

    And tomorrow I get to see ROAD TO PERDITION, then next week EIGHT LEGGED FREAKS and then K-19. I’m pulling for 4 in a row. Wouldn’t that be nice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gohron View Post
    I like doing stuff with animals and kids

  2. Well, it turns out Harry found out the story behind The Secret Lab, Reign of Fire's effects house... and it ain't pretty.
    The Death of THE SECRET LAB / DREAM QUEST IMAGES Fx Company... The Story from the Inside! REIGN OF FIRE!

    Hey folks, Harry here... In my review of REIGN OF FIRE, I asked who THE SECRET LAB was. Somewhere along the way that name never stuck in my head, DREAM QUEST IMAGES, however, is one of my all time favorite Visual Effects Houses. I knew they were on DINOSAUR, but somehow I missed or simply forgot that they were folded up into Disney's gigantic digital company. Watching REIGN OF FIRE, you just can't help but be in utter awe at their work. Bar none, this is the best digital creature animation I've seen. Living breathing creatures, completely alive within their settings affecting everything. The company poured everything they had into REIGN OF FIRE... It is a shame that that crew couldn't of stayed together somewhere... When you see the 'arch-angels' sequence in REIGN OF FIRE, you'll see one of the very best digital effects scenes ever committed to film. DREAM QUEST understood how to fool the eye and the brain with their tricks. Personally, I'll never ever think of them as THE SECRET LAB... They will always be DREAM QUEST to me. I hate it when things get renamed. It'd be like calling DISNEY... EISNER'S. It might be under new management, but his name will never be on the company. Everyone, settle down... This is the story of The Secret Lab...
    Harry,

    You liked Reign of Fire. I'm glad. I worked on the Visual Effects. I used to work at the Secret Lab. You wonder who we were, and where we came from, and how we created dragons that at least can be mentioned in the same breath as Tippett's go-motion god of a dragon from another Disney movie so long ago. I'm writing you to tell you that sadly we are no more, and all film geeks should know this loss.

    The Secret Lab was Disney's new name for the visual effects company that used to be called Dream Quest Images. Dream Quest was founded by Hoyt Yeatman and Abdi Sami back in the mid 80's. Hoyt is the very essence of visual effects coolness. Abdi was the guy with the business knowhow. Together they started in Hoyt's garage and built whole worlds of amazing visuals. I know many of my favorite moviegoing moments were courtesy the old Dream Quest. The red red canyons of Mars in Total Recall... the too-real-to-be-believed submarines in The Abyss... the Black Lectroids' spaceship in Buckaroo Banzai-- the way it moved!

    Disney came to Dream Quest more and more to do its bigger and bigger summer blockbusters. Crimson Tide, Con-Air, The Rock... So it made sense for Disney to buy Dream Quest from Abdi and Hoyt... Hoyt would stay on, to make the movies for Disney... and the team they built would keep the cool visuals coming.

    The next big step for Dream Quest was digital characters: George of the Jungle's elephant, Deep Rising's sea monster, Mighty Joe Young. All of them today still hold up as great digital creations, with Dream Quest's digital Mighty Joe still unsurpassed.

    Then came the big one: Armageddon. Almost all of the Asteroid and shuttle shots done by Dream Quest under the supervision of Richard Hoover, oh, and the destruction of Paris in one beautiful shot that is among the best effects of all time courtesy the master, Hoyt Yeatman. Dream Quest got two Oscar nominations that year, for Armageddon and for Mighty Joe Young (we lost to What Dreams May Come).

    We were making these effects in a small building in an industrial park in Simi Valley, CA. It was a scrappy little outfit, and sometimes it seemed like way out there in the boondocks we were creating just to please ourselves. A bunch of film-loving geeks working for Hoyt in his garage.

    About this time, Disney was making a film called Dinosaur at their Feature Animation division. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars building a luxurious, lushly-appointed building, and tricking it out with computer hardware. They paid top-dollar for the talent, and put them in a building with (I kid you not) a sand volleyball court, a jogging track, a putting green, a gym, a video-arcade and cable tv in every cube.

    When Dinosaur finished, Disney had a really expensive building, and no new film to start making in it. A lot of eyes were on the expenses, and the powers that be decided to absorb Dream Quest and put us in the big expensive building with the people who made Dinosaur. They would call us the Secret Lab, and they put the Secret Lab logo on the credits for Dinosaur almost as an afterthought.

    Fancy building aside, this was when Dream Quest and The Secret Lab would do its best work ever. This is because the character animators at Disney are second to none in the world. The amazing technology the people created for making dinosaur muscles and bones and fat and sinew, and the amazing lighting and shading tools -- and the people who know how to use them, made this a marriage from heaven.

    Harry, stop reading this now, and go look at the movie 102 Dalmatians. I know, I know, kid's stuff. But look at the dogs. Scene after scene after scene of digital dogs interacting with real dogs -- some in close-up! You heard me. Digital dogs, and you can't tell the difference. That is the result of great animation, great muscle/skin systems, great lighting, great shaders, great fur-rendering tools and great compositors. The dog is the one animal that everyone knows -- so easy to mess up, because everyone has one. The dog is second only to the human being for the hardest digital creation to fool the eye. Disney didn't promote this as an effects movie, so it got totally missed. It deserved the Oscar, but it didn't even get nominated because everyone assumed they were real dogs.

    So where are we now? Defunct. Disbanded. Layed-off. Why? Because some bean-counter decided that outside companies can do effects cheaper. Duh! We WERE cheaper when we were in our industrial park in Simi Valley! It was you guys who moved us into the palace with the video arcade and the putting green!

    The Secret Lab is no more. The building is empty now, the talent is gone, dispersed... Lots of us went to go work on The Two Towers or the Matrix sequels. Some of us will probably be forced to take work on Scooby Doo II. The people will go on to other things at other places... but that magic mix will never exist again. Everywhere people wind up, they have a wistful tone in their voice. "Yeah, it's alright here," they say. "But nobody here really gets it about effects." Nobody knows how to make CG not LOOK like CG. How to make dragons and dogs and giant gorillas move like animals rather than marionettes. How to make images that stick in the memory for years and years. Well... maybe Weta does... Thank God for Weta.

    This week, Reign of Fire will come out, but most of the people who made it don't work for Disney anymore. I'd love to see an Oscar nomination for effects. People worked for over a year on this show. Lots of blood and tears were shed creating what you see onscreen. People worked late nights and weekends fully knowing they would be out of work when it was done. That's love. Everyone wanted these dragons to be real, to live onscreen just like the Vermithrax. Tons of technical innovations went into these dragons. Real scales on the dragon, not just texture maps, muscle and skin systems to die for, fluid dynamics that allow the dragon's wings to actually stir the smokey air around as they flap, and for the first time ever, CG fire that looks utterly real. The shot where Van Zan jumps off the top of the truck with a fireball all around him: that fire's digital. FX supervisors Rich Hoover and Dan Deleeuw deserve an Oscar in a big way, as do the dozens of people like me under them, who all work for Disney's competitors now. The saddest thing is, no matter how big a hit they have with this film, they can't do a sequel, because the people don't work there anymore. Disney's suits don't understand that once you lose the momentum, you can't ramp it back up for one movie without enormous expense. Reign of Fire looks so good because the dragons are built on top of dalmatians and the dalmatians were built on top of Dinosaur.

    A piece of movie geek history has gone away this week. Dream Quest Images is no more. The company was never the household name that ILM or Digital Domain or even Weta is. We concentrated on the effects, not the magazine articles. I wanted film lovers to know that we were here, and now we're gone -- hope you enjoy the dragons.

    Reign of Fire won't be the last film from The Secret Lab. Hoyt has one last surprise up his sleeve. A film starring a CG kangaroo. The working title is Down & Under, and it's a Jerry Bruckheimer film. One last bit of magic from the folks that brought you the dragons. This kangaroo is better than the dragons, if you can believe that. It is the best effects creature we've ever done, and it's our martini shot. A skeleton crew has stayed on board to finish the last couple of shots from that film, working in a little industrial park in Glendale -- working with Hoyt. If I know Hoyt, something about the dusty small place and the tight crew makes him smile.

    Sign me:

    Sunset Moment

    Dream Quest/The Secret Lab's credits (a partial list). If you count any of these films among your favorites, raise a glass and give a toast of thanks to Hoyt Yeatman.

    The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension

    D.A.R.Y.L.

    Short Circuit

    Total Recall

    "V"

    The Fly

    The Blob

    Moonwalker

    Predator

    Robin Hood: Men in Tights

    The Abyss

    The Mask

    Better Off Dead

    Toys

    Crimson Tide

    National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation

    Con Air

    The Rock

    The Crow

    Kundun

    Defending Your Life

    Flubber

    Bicentennial Man

    My Favorite Martian

    George of the Jungle

    Deep Rising

    Armageddon

    Pee Wee's Big Adventure

    Mighty Joe Young

    The Sixth Sense

    Twilight Zone: The Movie

    Inspector Gadget

    Dinosaur

    Shanghai Noon

    Unbreakable

    Mission To Mars

    Gone in 60 Seconds

    102 Dalmatians

    Reign of Fire

    Down & Under

    Quote Originally Posted by Gohron View Post
    I like doing stuff with animals and kids

  3. What????

    Deep Rising was a great movie, and monster fx in it were top notch.

  4. #14
    Reign of fire came in number 3 at the Box office behind Road to Perdition and MIB 2 which was still number one...

  5. Yeah, It made 16 million It deserves much more, but its crappy MIB2 that makes money

  6. Wow, that's too bad.

    The effects in this film are very well done, and those dragons even managed to impress my jaded ass.

    Gon
    ...because without the bitter, baby, the sweet ain't as sweet.

  7. Maybe if they released it in the Fall, the box office might have been better.

    Still need to get the dvd for my collection.

  8. I was actually commenting on The Secret Lab/Dream Quest Images being defunct, but, yeah, Reign of Fire's poor box office take is also unfortunate. I'm guilty of not having supported it at the theater... thought it would suck. Having just seen it last night (rented the DVD per a friend's recommendation), however, I can say that I was pleasantly surprised at how solid the film turned out... and now wish that I had seen it on the big screen.

    One thing that I've noticed that nobody seems to have mentioned is just how good the sound effects were. That "kite" sound that the dragons made when gliding overhead/swooping in at high speed was friggin' awesome.

    Between this and Equilibrium, Christian Bale has gone from being unknown to me, to one of my favorite actors of late.

    Gon
    ...because without the bitter, baby, the sweet ain't as sweet.

  9. Same here. I liked his performance in American Psycho, then his chracter in Reign of Fire, and then he totally kicked ass in Equilibrium

  10. I wish for a prequel.

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