TNL's 20 Favorite Games of All-Time

[A Robot Bit Me]

1) Why the Panzer Dragoon obsession ... it's in a borderline dead genre.

The Wii has resuscitated it to a degree. I definitely wouldn't mind a few Wiimote-enabled PD remakes or sequels. Yes, omfg ban A Faggit, Bite Me and all that. But it worked for S&P 2 I hear, right?

[kingoffighters]

Maybe too many TNLers took the God awful SNES -> PS1 -> DC -> PS2 path, because they were too young to have multiple systems or something.

I got the same conclusion looking at the votes. Funny how Phantasy Star 2 got a spot when the original is far superior (more immersive and impressive dungeons, way better music and story).

I don't have a problem with this list other than what others have already stated, it is pretty much the same as the Game Informer's Top 200 list, if you only look at the first 20 or so games. Far too many early PC games were not voted. I don't have to think hard, but no Xcom/Civilization/Tie Fighter/Starcraft is just criminal. These games weren't just good for nostaglic reason, they are as good as anythin that comes out today.

In fact, for a Top 20 list, most of the games should be PC games because there are so many amazing titles that really have no equal on consoles.

[Yoshi]

I don't have to think hard, but no Xcom/Civilization/Tie Fighter/Starcraft is just criminal. These games weren't just good for nostaglic reason, they are as good as anythin that comes out today.

At least they all got votes... just not enough. In fact, I think I was the only one that voted for TIE Fighter. There were multiple votes for the other three though.

[Yoshi]

Commercially speaking, I think you're right, but Sega had a few issues working against them in this regard:

1) Their blockbuster franchises were mostly Genesis era, and it's hard to bring back a series from two generations back. The gameplay of those titles wouldn't be relevant, and they'd be more or less reinvent them anyway.

2) The Genesis wasn't popular in Japan, and the Saturn wasn't popular in the US, so they were severely lacking in games with broad international appeal. Even Sonic was never that big in Japan.


1) Why the Panzer Dragoon obsession? It's not exactly a franchise that ever moved big numbers, and it's in a borderline dead genre. I'd check out a new one, of course, but if it was my money, I wouldn't invest in the development and expect to see a return.

2) Sega's development issues are so much deeper than that now. I think we'd both agree that in recent years, stuff like Yakuza and Valkyria Chronicles -- new or newish stuff -- are the only real evidence that Sega still has the potential to make great games.

Sonic Team is so horribly mismanaged they just can't get a good game out, half of Smilebit is working on Japanese exclusive sports games, and then we have like a couple other teams that make like one game every two years and still do a good job. Plus the arcade division, which is still good buy less relevant every day.

Agreed on all accounts. Feel free to join me on my front porch, where I can sit in a rocking chair and bitch about the good old days and the government.

[James]

The gameplay of those titles wouldn't be relevant

I don't get that line at all. Care to mention a few titles by way of example? Because right now all I can think of is that Final Fantasy Tactics is just a fancier version of Shining Force, and grid-based strat games seem to do well enough that they keep making more. Castle Crashers is Streets of Rage, etc.

And who do I have to sacrifice a Flicky to to get a true sequel to Landstalker?

James

[Andrew]

I tried PSII for the first time last year. It was a decent old-school RPG, and I can see how it would have been great for its time, but I still haven't been able to force myself to finish it. It's something I intend to do sometime later this year.

edit: Shining Force, on the other hand, was fucking great and still holds up. That's another one I first played in recent times.

[StriderKyo]

Sega did Orta, it was as wonderful a PD games as you can make, and nobody bought it. That ended that story.

Any list that's marking 3rd rate also-ran games like Eternal Champions, Virtua Racing or Last Bronx is well padded. Were they even like the top 15 in their genre in that era? Or streets of Rage, a franchise that lasted exactly 2 worthwhile games which - let's be honest here - were essentially carbon copies of Final Fight with an extra move or two tacked on. I own like 60 Saturn games (thank you, Japanese retro shops) and while it was an amazing system with a lot to love and a lot of exclusive genre-catering games, I'll still take the DC. Those 2 years were the most creativity I've seen from any system ever outside the NES and its raft of franchise-establishing blueprint games.

Sega let each of their teams run wild with their best, most creative ideas trying to find a breakout franchise that would stick, rather than copying or modifying other succesful franchises like they spent much of the 16 -bit era doing. It was a truly unique situation.

[Cowutopia]

Isn't x-com on there?

Holy fuckrapist. It's not. But Crazy Taxi is. Who the fuck voted for this shit?

Yoshi did you count votes of people with under 2,000 posts?

[Frogacuda]

I don't get that line at all. Care to mention a few titles by way of example? Because right now all I can think of is that Final Fantasy Tactics is just a fancier version of Shining Force, and grid-based strat games seem to do well enough that they keep making more. Castle Crashers is Streets of Rage, etc.

Shining Force might be an exception, but it's also a series Sega has revived and disappointed with. Meanwhile Valkyria Chronicles is better than any new Shining Force would have been.

Streets of Rage as a name might have had some clout, but a straight up old-school Castle Crashers like affair isn't going to be a mainstream seller. Plus, I think in 3D it would turn in to SpikeOut at best (style-wise) and 50 Cent Bulletproof at worst.

Some stuff they tried and did a pretty fair job of and it just didn't work in the modern era. Toejam and Ear III comes to mind. Panzer Dragoon Orta, too. Vectorman was cancelled, but wouldn't have worked.

[Frogacuda]

Isn't x-com on there?

Holy fuckrapist. It's not. But Crazy Taxi is. Who the fuck voted for this shit?

Yoshi did you count votes of people with under 2,000 posts?

Could you pick two less comparable games? Obviously there's not going to be a huge overlap in those audiences. Crazy Taxi is one of the best pure arcade, pick up and play games of the last decade. X-Com is a deep, very involved experience for the patient gamer.