TNL's 20 Favorite Games of All-Time

[Grave]

I don't think it'll hold up as a re-release, but I'd love to see the idea redone. A simple fighting game where one hit can kill you, with huge emphasis on defense over offense. It needs to be made well.

Light Weight hasn't made a good game since the first BB (no, 2 doesn't count, even if Tony Umeda is the best character in the series) so I imagine it won't be coming from them.

[Yoshi]

Thank you. Crazy Taxi wouldn't even be in my top 10 DC list. It is a good arcade game at the time, nothing more.

IBTN. I just don't get how DC Sega has a better reputation here and a lot of places than real ~1987-1997 Sega. I love JGR and Shenmue, but other than those, the platform was awful for new franchises and didn't even get sequels it should have. How did Panzer Dragoon skip the DC for example? I would say Sega's support of their consoles would go like this:

1. Genesis
2. Master System
3. Saturn
4. Dreamcast

The Dreamcast was a 2K sports and third party fighter/shooter machine until nearly all its games got ported or sequels.

Maybe too many TNLers took the God awful SNES -> PS1 -> DC -> PS2 path, because they were too young to have multiple systems or something.

[Sixfortyfive]

the platform was awful for new franchises and didn't even get sequels it should have.

Sega's output on the DC was fine. The system just didn't last as long as any of their others, so if you end up comparing ~4 years on the DC to their other consoles you're going to come up short.

Sega has always been terrible when it comes to sequels and keeping old franchises viable as well, so that's not something that's specific to the Dreamcast alone.

[BonusKun]

This is a great list Yoshi. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

[NeoZeedeater]

would say Sega's support of their consoles would go like this:

1. Genesis
2. Master System
3. Saturn
4. Dreamcast

Sega's output on the DC was fine. The system just didn't last as long as any of their others, so if you end up comparing ~4 years on the DC to their other consoles you're going to come up short.

I agree with both of these things. The latter explains part of the former. I didn't have issue with Sega's support of the DC before it was officially discontinued. I think Yoshi is probably right about the whole age and owning multiple systems thing factoring in. I imagine most writers in the game industry and message board posters owned a DC but very few owned an SMS or SS even though the market share was low for all of them in NA.

[StriderKyo]

Because REZ is fucking garbage. Never played Shenmue though.

I don't even know how you morally justify a post like this. You're probably going to hell now.

[Frogacuda]

IBTN. I just don't get how DC Sega has a better reputation here and a lot of places than real ~1987-1997 Sega. I love JGR and Shenmue, but other than those, the platform was awful for new franchises and didn't even get sequels it should have.

This could not be more wrong. Unless we're talking about how much affection you had for the new franchises, in which case it's subjective. But it is absolutely impossible to deny that Sega worked their asses off to make sure the DC had original franchises.

It's also a strange sentiment that you mention new stuff and sequels in the same breath as if they aren't mutually exclusive. Obviously Sega didn't crank out a lot of sequels on DC. In fact, they've never been big on sequels in general compared to other companies. One of the reasons Sega was so great was that they always invested in new IP. Most great SMS games never had sequels on Genesis, and most great Genesis games never had sequels on Saturn.

So back to the original franchise point, we have Skies of Arcadia, Rez, Space Channel 5, JGR, Shenmue, Seaman, Crazy Taxi, Chu Chu Rocket, Samba de Amigo, NFL/NBA/NHL2K, Segagaga, Hundred Swords... It was really an unprecedented amount of energy put into new IPs. I honestly think that's probably part of why they didn't succeed; people don't want new ideas as much as they want familiar names. This even bled over into the first generation of games moved from DC to other consoles, like Monkey Ball, Billy Hatcher, GunValkyrie...

I think I'd take Sega's 1999-early 2002 output over just about any other 3 years from any other developer.

[A Robot Bit Me]

Oh. Another Top 20 of All-Time thread. A Link to The Past, SMB3, Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger, blah blah blah; same as every list that gets posted. Oooh, FFIV instead of FFVII! How risky! Who were the Nintendo-weened neophytes who came up with this predictable piece of shit? Gamespot? IGN? Game Inform-WHAAAAAAAA?



So, hey! We have the same boring taste as everyone else! We're not so elite! I guess the reason why the same handful of 8 and 16-bit games perennially crop up on these things isn't because the gaming media is comprised of unoriginal Johnny-come-latelies who can name less pre-NES games than we can name Konami titles whose definitive versions were on the X68000. I guess the reason is because these games are actually really fucking good.

Personally, I'm going to donate my high horse to the folks outside of Planned Parenthood who were doing the Lord's work out there in the cold today -- the Lord's work being screaming at scared-shitless teenage girls and hoisting pictures of dead babies skyward for all of New England to see! They deserve a neat pet.

[Yoshi]

This could not be more wrong. Unless we're talking about how much affection you had for the new franchises, in which case it's subjective.

There is no question that it is subjective.

So back to the original franchise point, we have Skies of Arcadia, Rez, Space Channel 5, JGR, Shenmue, Seaman, Crazy Taxi, Chu Chu Rocket, Samba de Amigo, NFL/NBA/NHL2K, Segagaga, Hundred Swords... It was really an unprecedented amount of energy put into new IPs. I honestly think that's probably part of why they didn't succeed; people don't want new ideas as much as they want familiar names. This even bled over into the first generation of games moved from DC to other consoles, like Monkey Ball, Billy Hatcher, GunValkyrie...

See out of everything you mentioned, I care about JGR, Shenmue, and the 2K Sports games. That's not to say the others were bad, but there is no way that list is holding a candle to the Genesis or Saturn IPs:

Sonic, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Virtua Racing, Eternal Champions, Sega Sports, Phantasy Star, Shining, Landstalker, Beyond Oasis, Vectorman, Ecco, etc.

or

Panzer Dragoon, Daytona, Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Dynamite Deka, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers, Astal, Last Bronx, etc.

And if you want carry over credit, then Shenmue started as a Saturn game, taking away the Dreamcast's best first party series.

I think I'd take Sega's 1999-early 2002 output over just about any other 3 years from any other developer.

This would be a tough thing to analyze objectively, but I am tentatively going to say 1987-1990 Konami. Although mid-1990s Capcom was pretty amazing too.

[Yoshi]

So, hey! We have the same boring taste as everyone else! We're not so elite! I guess the reason why the same handful of 8 and 16-bit games perennially crop up on these things isn't because the gaming media is comprised of unoriginal Johnny-come-latelies who can name less pre-NES games than we can name Konami titles whose definitive versions were on the X68000. I guess the reason is because these games are actually really fucking good.

No, it's just the typical failure of democracy. Too many people who have no business voting get a ballot.