Child of Eden

[Tain]

Why? Planescape Torment is one of the best RPGs ever made but has less punishment to the player than Rez has, Sam & Max has no losing of any kind whatsoever and yet remains a good adventure game, etc. While you might enjoy many games simply because of a punishing death factor, that does not give any reason why games without such are automatically bad.

My idea of a good game is one that forces the player to know or learn it inside and out, and I do enjoy myself most when being pushed. Games that do this last me a while. They reward me for playing well either by letting me progress, by making things look awesome, by letting me win over other players, whatever. That's what I'm operating on. All the other stuff unquestionably factors in when things get even a little bit close, but it's mostly secondary.

A lot of this involves genres, too. If Rez were an adventure game that somehow managed to have the same exact aesthetic impact, I'd be a hell of a lot more likely to call it good, since my natural instinct would be to compare it to other adventure games. My natural reaction to Sam & Max is that it's a good adventure game. My natural reaction to Rez is that it's a bad rail shooter. On the scale of experience games, Rez rates pretty high, actually. I just don't hold experience games very high.

Truthfully, I don't consider Sam & Max to be one of the best games ever. I don't think the adventure game genre is all that high up there. I feel similarly about RPGs and modern single player action games. I'll occasionally play these games, and it's not like I regret playing them or anything. I just enjoy them for however long they last and then forget about them, which tends to make me think lower of them in the long term than something that sticks with me over the years.

Wouldn't games designed more around invoking emotions and ideas as opposed to using the same basic design of 8-bit action games but now with shiny 3D graphics be the very thing that helps to differentiate the media from just being digital toys? This starts to get into the can games be art debate, but most video games (like all the ones you mentioned in comparison to Rez) are digital toys. Sorry if that's somehow an upsetting thought.

Not upsetting at all. I can definitely buy that most (hell, all) games are digital toys (with the ones you can fail at being a subset of toys that also happen to be closer to the more traditional definition of a game), and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. There's no need to try to fight for differentiation, to fight that label.

[StriderKyo]

My idea of a good game is one that forces the player to know or learn it inside and out, and I do enjoy myself most when being pushed. Games that do this last me a while. They reward me for playing well either by letting me progress, by making things look awesome

You just described Rez. I don't get why you're putting it into some weird category like it's easier than your average game (it's not), or it doesn't require mastery & memorization (it does). I've never put more effort into playing a game for score than I have that one; it had a pretty decent sized score based community (even on this site, back when we had a board for that sort of thing).

[YellerDog]

Game which 99% of people who play games forgot about after release also describes Rez, so I hope this has some staying power.

[Tain]

You just described Rez. I don't get why you're putting it into some weird category like it's easier than your average game (it's not), or it doesn't require mastery & memorization (it does). I've never put more effort into playing a game for score than I have that one; it had a pretty decent sized score based community (even on this site, back when we had a board for that sort of thing).

It's easier to survive in Rez than most other rail shooters I can think of. Space Harrier, the Panzer games, the Sin & Punishment games, even Star Fox 64. I very rarely play games for score; getting a high number is way less interesting of a reward than seeing new stages, beating a new boss, reaching an ending, and so on, unless I've already done all of these things and happen to really, really like the game. And when you do play for score, it makes the game sound nastier than not playing for score ("BAAAAAAH" x infinity). Unless I'm missing something.

Put the best parts of the game in the main game, as A Robot Bit Me says. If getting the more complicated chains is awesome and will totally make me see things in a different light, why not make me to do it in the main game?

[JM]

I very rarely play games for score; getting a high number is way less interesting of a reward than seeing new stages, beating a new boss, reaching an ending, and so on, unless I've already done all of these things and happen to really, really like the game.

Well if you are playing for the ending, you don't get the "good" ending unless you beat the final boss the highest evolutionary form you can get. It may be hard to die in Rez but gettting a no miss run on the boss gauntlet and final boss are another thing. Just plowing through unskillfully is the same thing as mashing continue in a shmup.

[Tain]

It may be hard to die in Rez but gettting a no miss run on the boss gauntlet and final boss are another thing.

true that.

[StriderKyo]

Game which 99% of people who play games forgot about after release also describes Rez, so I hope this has some staying power.

It was never going to be a big seller, but people talked about it for years. Game developer magazine did a cover on its sound design like a year after it hit the PS2 in the US, people seem to have forgotten it was a landmark as one of the very first games to use dynamic sound. It's shown up in every "games as art" article ever. It was on all kinds of top 10 critics' choice lists during the PS2 era. Rez HD was released just last year because of fan demand.

I don't understand what the fuck is going on in this thread. Is there some kind of Rez disinformation campaign meme I missed? It was like a holy grail game on this site for the longest time, and now half you guys are Jousting out on me here.

[epmode]

Artsy games aren't very fashionable on Real Talk TNL I guess. Things have changed.

I still think it's pretty brilliant though!

[JM]

"Everything Sucks forever." [/icarusfall]

[MechDeus]

Put the best parts of the game in the main game, as A Robot Bit Me says. If getting the more complicated chains is awesome and will totally make me see things in a different light, why not make me to do it in the main game?

Because:

getting a high number is way less interesting of a reward than seeing new stages, beating a new boss, reaching an ending, and so on

It's the same reason DMC doesn't start on Dante Must Die or Bayonetta on NSIC, because the majority of people that buy the game just want to beat it and don't care about being good at it. Now this often a good thing since many games aren't balanced very well, but you are your own devil.

To my knowledge Rez is the only rail shooter with evolving bosses and endings that get tougher and more intricate the better you do.