Fuck Ebert

[A Robot Bit Me]

Understatement of the century. I am convinced most of these people are so worked up over making sure their stupid little hobby is validated that they don't actually care how good (based on traditional metrics) a game is - the primary importance in judging a game is how "artsy" they can pretend it is.

Yes. A million times yes. The impetus behind the games-as-art movement is as simple as "See, mom? I told you I wasn't wasting my life."

Also, all art seems to mean to any of the games-as-art apologists is Nice Lighting Effects (Ico, SotC, Flower) or It Totally Makes, Like, Music When You Do Stuff (Chime, Rez, Flower).

[arjue]

"Art" is an incredibly ambiguous term and can be pretty much anything if someone wants it to be. I don't know why something has to be abstract to be considered arty.

[YellerDog]

Yes. A million times yes. The impetus behind the games-as-art movement is as simple as "See, mom? I told you I wasn't wasting my life."

Also, all art seems to mean to any of the games-as-art apologists is Nice Lighting Effects (Ico, SotC, Flower) or It Totally Makes, Like, Music When You Do Stuff (Chime, Rez, Flower).

I don't think I've really seen Chime get mentioned much by anybody (which is a shame because it's a nice little game and a pity it gets written off like this)

[arjue]

as long as games are made by people, they are art or have the potential to be art.

The reason that porn is not consider art is the same reason that you eating a ham sandwich is not art. It isn't an expression of your self. It is basic desire of your body. Most people don't consider basic requirements of the body to be art. We don't consider taking a shit, taking a nap, washing ourselves, taking cover in a storm, running from danger, etc, to be art.

Art requires some part of the human intellect. Be it the part that learns complex skills, the part that is self aware, or the part that can conceptualize the world around it and then attempt to reproduce it.

Finger painting by a little kid is art. Why? Because the kid is using his brain to try to express something (assuming he isn't just mushing colors because paint feels good on his hands)
Taking a shit is not art, but making a film about shit is. Why? Because you have to take shits, and you do it with out thought. It just is. There is no thought behind it. The film took thought. Someone had to think about the concept of shit, and then think of a way of expressing his thoughts about shit with film...

Shtting can be art. Pornography can be art. Human intellect is not a requirement for art. You do not have to think about the concept of shitting to film someone shitting.

[Fe 26]

You do not have to think about the concept of shitting to film someone shitting.

then it is probably not art.