Tomb Raider (Crystal Dynamics' 4th)

[Korly]

Coming from the two who "finished" the game with less than 80% and probably didn't play on hard.

I completed all of the optional tombs. Is there any reason to collect all of the GPS things, or is it just for an achievement and some completion percentage?

[Yoshi]

You collect them, because, like a mountain, they are there. I do give you credit for the tombs though. I liked the variety of puzzles in those.

[Yoshi]

Since he specifically stated a lack of replay value, that's not entirely true. I often see games that aren't worth paying for but I would still be willing to support a sequel that fixes the problems I dealt with.

The problem with the "replay value" gripe is that the game either needs to be four hours long, like MGR, or let you see everything in one play through. The biggest flaw of games like Uncharted and Gears is what I am sure the developers thought was "replay value": locked difficulties. Who the hell has time to play through right-length games multiple times anyway?

Korly's statement about supporting it for $40 but not $60 is fair (especially since I paid $45), so let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is.

[Korly]

I keep money in my mouth all the time.

And I'm not saying that I will buy it when it hits $40. I AM saying that I would have bought it at launch for $40. Now that I have finished the game (and spent like 8 bucks renting it from Redbox for 4 days) I don't want to buy it. Now, if it's re-released for PS4 with new content and a $40 price point then I'd buy it. This version I will buy at $20 when there is a coupon at Best Buy or a Gold Box at Amazon.

And if there is meaningful DLC (new, challenging tombs or extended story bits) then I will buy that DLC and rent the game from Redbox again to play it.

[Joust Williams]

You could have bought it at launch for 40 dollars. I did. $37.50 I think.

Game is great so far. I found only my second tomb though and I think I am halfway through the story. The last tomb was just me burning some cocoons on a weight. Kind of a crappy tomb.

[MechDeus]

The problem with the "replay value" gripe is that the game either needs to be four hours long, like MGR, or let you see everything in one play through. The biggest flaw of games like Uncharted and Gears is what I am sure the developers thought was "replay value": locked difficulties. Who the hell has time to play through right-length games multiple times anyway?

You're making the wrong assumption about GOW; the replay value comes in the form of multiplayer that people actually want to play. MGS:R's replay value is the same as Vanquish's despite the difference in campaign length, as both of them (along with games like the recent Batman entries) feature score and timed-based challenge modes.

As for difficulties, the reason I asked you about whether TR's was the lazy method is because that method is worthless. Unless you're terrible at the game and using up health potions or whatever all the time and just soaking up boss attacks on normal, there's often no functional difference between normal and hard on a game that just increases enemy lifebars and damage dealt. You're facing the same bad guys with the same tactics with the same attacks, only now it takes twice as long.

In MGS:R there's a big difference between hard and revengeance. You're fighting different enemy configurations with different enemies who are using much more aggressive tactics, similar to how Ninja Gaiden did it. In hard they fight the same way they do in Assassin's Creed or Batman, where everyone circles around the player and takes turns doing an attack. In revengeance everyone dogpiles on the player and attacks at the same time, meaning that if you aren't doing perfect parries you can get stuck in block stun totally unable to retaliate while three soldiers and a Gekko all constantly swing at you without ever pausing.

TLDR: Playing on hard instead of normal most likely means nothing.

[Joust Williams]

I agree with you. Tomb Raider doesn't seem like it has a replay value. But the game is longer (and just as high quality IMO) as playing MGR:R twice. Longer for the sake of long is stupid. "Normal" games (action/adventure, FPS) should be measured on a matrix consisting of length, average quality and lowest prolonged-stretch quality IMO.

[Yoshi]

You're making the wrong assumption about GOW; the replay value comes in the form of multiplayer that people actually want to play. MGS:R's replay value is the same as Vanquish's despite the difference in campaign length, as both of them (along with games like the recent Batman entries) feature score and timed-based challenge modes.

As for difficulties, the reason I asked you about whether TR's was the lazy method is because that method is worthless. Unless you're terrible at the game and using up health potions or whatever all the time and just soaking up boss attacks on normal, there's often no functional difference between normal and hard on a game that just increases enemy lifebars and damage dealt. You're facing the same bad guys with the same tactics with the same attacks, only now it takes twice as long.

In MGS:R there's a big difference between hard and revengeance. You're fighting different enemy configurations with different enemies who are using much more aggressive tactics, similar to how Ninja Gaiden did it. In hard they fight the same way they do in Assassin's Creed or Batman, where everyone circles around the player and takes turns doing an attack. In revengeance everyone dogpiles on the player and attacks at the same time, meaning that if you aren't doing perfect parries you can get stuck in block stun totally unable to retaliate while three soldiers and a Gekko all constantly swing at you without ever pausing.

Hell, the only difference between renting and pirating is that maybe the rental places by enough copies to make a slight difference to the developer/publisher's bottom line. Otherwise, Redbox, Blockbuster, etc. are just leeches on the industry like GameStop's used bullshit but without the bad trade in argument.

TLDR: Playing on hard instead of normal most likely means nothing.

That's all well and good. This industry can eat a dick if, thanks to people like Korly, we stop getting great single player games that aren't based on replaying for score or at all for that matter. Fucking Chux has a Ninja Gaiden avatar and is condoning that bullshit even.

[Joust Williams]

NG has a score though.

[Chux]

The only comparable thing you could do with TR is a speed run, maybe.