Let's Reminisce: Sony Playstation

[bVork]

Are you sure you have even played Ultima Underworld? Vertical spaces matter very much. Z-axis distance mattering very much when trying to reach switches. Swimming around looking for a low enough floor to let you get out of a sewer. Whole corridors filled with lava that require you to get extremely creative to cross them. Even puzzles that have you adjust floor heights until you can reach certain areas.

[YellerDog]

The physicality of the character is clearly noticeable when falling or jumping.

In which your camera with a sword on it goes up or down, yes.

[NeoZeedeater]

So you're saying first-person games don't count? I'm lost as to what you're arguing.

[YellerDog]

I'm saying it's a different sort of thing. UU and Metal Gear aren't the same sport if we're talking about types of 3D games. I'm saying Metal Gear Solid brought a lot to the table in terms of having a 3D character that addresses the actual shape of the character (and uses that in a new way in the actual gameplay), as opposed to your camera-with-a-sword-on-it RPGs, which certainly exist, but aren't trying to do the same things by any stretch.

[kingoffighters]

I am surprised that FFVII didn't win, and ok with MGS winning. I wish I had kept the JPN LE, that box was epic.

Tomb Raider was damn cool back in the day, but feels a bit clunky now.

[bVork]

I don't think you have actually played Ultima Underworld. This is a really stupid hill to make a stand on. Solid Snake is less affected by the physical properties of the world than the Avatar in Ultima Underworld. You can get knocked back. Whacking your sword into a stone wall will damage it more than whacking it into a wooden door. Currents affect you. Impacts from different masses have different levels of effect. Velocity matters, both for your physical body and for any objects thrown.

Meanwhile, Snake is based on discrete states. Standing, crouching, pressing up against something, on the ground, holding a person, holding a railing. That's about it. There is no more physicality to him than there is to Pac-Man.

[YellerDog]

I'm saying Solid Snake is in a much better game.

[bVork]

[YellerDog]

Meanwhile, Snake is based on discrete states. Standing, crouching, pressing up against something, on the ground, holding a person, holding a railing. That's about it. There is no more physicality to him than there is to Pac-Man.

I think the corner looking is a big thing here, that's what puts MGS over the MSX game. You can't do that in Pac-Man, nor would you need to; you can see the whole board. You end up with a fog-of-war situation in MGS just by the nature of objects obscuring your view and it's a major part of the gameplay. If you're prone and using first person to figure out where a guard's walking based on seeing his feet (while at the same time dealing with the vulnerability from being in a prone state), that's a new thing. You don't get that in Pac Man. Or Ultima.

Play it with the radar off sometime --it's a much different game!

[bVork]

Yeah, Ultima Underworld doesn't have the corner leaning. You need to move the clock forward to 1994's System Shock for that.