The Trump Presidency

[Doc Holliday]

I'd say the majority of murder in the us is caused by people that think of themselves as Christian.

It probably jumps up even higher with gun violence and death as both rural Americans and urban minorities self identify as Christians.

The catch is these people aren't killing in the name of Jesus (some are and suicides yes, but in a fraction to their competitors). Violent and intolerant Christians are hypocrites, where as sumbissive and tolerant Muslims are hypocrites. Terrorism sucks, but you have to hand it to them for being faithful adherents.

[bbobb]

ISIS has nothing to do with it. The religion itself promotes horrible behavior, and some cultures it flourishes in have largely failed to mitigate it.

Not anymore than any other religion.

[Diff-chan]

Not anymore than any other religion.

Flat out not true at all. quite frankly I am surprised anyone would say this in current year..

[Diff-chan]

I love watching Maher but the Islam stuff gets wayyyyyy too out there and ignorant for a Jewish guy to be speaking like he does. If we factored in the violence and mental health issues that "domestic" religions cause (think suicides from families who practice religions that don't accept LGBTQ members, mental illness/self harm/drug addictions/overdoses stemming from religious family abuse, etc) the whole Muslim thing becomes the least of our problems. His ethnocentric nonsense can get annoying. But the guests are usually good so there's that.

Are domestic religions throwing their LGTB people off buildings?

[Fe 26]

The catch is these people aren't killing in the name of Jesus

A lot of the anti gay stuff is in the name of jesus. Climate change denial at its heart, if you aren't an oil CEO, is in the name of Jesus. Trying to defund planned parenthood is in the name of Jesus. And for many, the fear of muslims is in the name of Jesus.

[Fe 26]

Flat out not true at all. quite frankly I am surprised anyone would say this in current year..

Yes and no. You can make an argument for some evil shit with the Bible if you cherry pick. Which has happened. But most have moved away from it and try to focus on a narrative of the Bible where the covenant of Christ replaces and fufills the covenant of the old testement and you no longer have to stone your children for insulting you because Jesus will sort that all out later.

But yeah, I don't recall anything in Buddhism about killing people for not doing things.

[Fe 26]

Are domestic religions throwing their LGTB people off buildings?

No, they just disown kids at the age of 13. And beat them. And emotionally terrorize them. And send them to gay away camps. And in some extremes hit them with cars, stab them or shoot them.

But no, throwing them off buildings is pretty uncommon.

[Anthony]

No, they just disown kids at the age of 13. And beat them. And emotionally terrorize them. And send them to gay away camps. And in some extremes hit them with cars, stab them or shoot them.

But no, throwing them off buildings is pretty uncommon.

Good, because it's much worse.

[Calliander]

You can point out the evils of the Christian right here in America and I'm right there with you. They are awful people who should not be making impactful decisions. I won't sit here and try to claim that things like conversion therapy, abuse, intolerance, and whatnot shouldn't be eliminated.

The key point is that Islam is the toughest solve. If Islam can be reformed (again, read: eradicated) then it will be much easier to reform Christianity, Judaism, etc. and then move onto other magical thinking.

That said, I generally don't believe the convictions of people who bring up the "tossing gay people off buildings" thing. I don't doubt Diff, but the majority of people appear to be using it as deflection/pious fraud. Anecdotal, I know.

[Diff-chan]

Yes but the Bible was written long ago and in very different circumstances from when Islam was founded. Islam was propagated through conquest whereas Christians were a persecuted sect for the first 300 years of its existence. Jews have likewise been a persecuted minority for, well, almost as long as there have been Jews.

And even if the Bible says some nasty shit there's no doubt it has come to be compatible with a secular society. We'll remember that the idea of freedom of religion and separation of church and state arose in what were Christian societies. This happened over 200 years ago. I'm reading a book on the French Revolution now and one interesting thing is the way this idea broke out of a society where Catholicism had a stranglehold on civil society. It's really quite remarkable.

If there is a tolerant and multicultural version of Islam out there it's certainly not what has been pushed forward by the Islamic powers in the past 100 years (for example Saudi Arabia) and I see little evidence of it today. Indonesia has done a good job and Turkey did until very recently but those are the exception and not the rule. And Turkey is backsliding into a theocracy as we speak. I think denying this because there are some Christian crackpots in Louisiana or Utah is intellectually dishonest quite frankly.