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Thread: The Biden Presidency

  1. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    Conversely, personal choice is super important for abortion, but not for vaccines. My body, my choice, right?
    Choosing to not get vaccinated and not wear a mask can infect other people and even kill them. I still haven't heard of any pregnant women spontaneously aborting because they were near a woman who got one.

    Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    Is there a vaccine for children that I don't know about? At what point do we admit the truth that this thing is here to stay and no amount of hiding in a closet is going to fix things? All it does is delay the inevitable. It's endemic. Like the flu. Get the vaccine to lower the chances of contracting it and, if you get it, of surviving it. Shit, I know a family of four that were all vaccinated and ALL OF THEM got it.
    That there is no vaccine for children is part of the problem. Our society makes you choose between your life and your livelihood because the economy is more important to politicians than people's lives. So, we have masks, vaccines, and social distancing to let those people who refuse to accept that COVID isn't done with them despite them wanting to pretend it's not a threat, and they STILL don't want to cooperate. It's why we're now facing a second variant and over 660,000 deaths. People didn't cooperate before the vaccines, and they're not cooperating now.

    Personally, at this point I think that anyone who refuses to get the vaccine because "COVID isn't real" shouldn't get treatment. Why should they get real treatments for a "fake" virus? Don't get vaccinated? You're on your own against the Darwin variant. I think they shouldn't also be clogging up ICUs and emergency rooms. They don't want to get vaccinated but run like hell to get treated. They also shouldn't bitch if stores refuse them service (it's all about freedom, right?).

    It's a shame that that story about men taking Ivermectin experiencing fertility problems was false. At least then they would de-worm themselves out of the gene pool.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Choosing to not get vaccinated and not wear a mask can infect other people and even kill them. I still haven't heard of any pregnant women spontaneously aborting because they were near a woman who got one.
    The argument there would be, of course, that you actually are killing another person by having an abortion in the first place. Honestly, I've always seen both sides of this argument and genuinely believe that neither is wrong. They just believe in different things.

    And, to your point, why don't we all just wear masks all the time? Flu, colds, etc... any transmissible virus would probably be lessened. Of course, no one knows the impact this is going to have on society, children, special needs children, child development, speech, depression, suicide, drug addiction, etc... but, fuck it, let's just do it to try to contain a virus that obviously can't be contained. 200 million people vaccinated and the numbers are almost at where they were a year ago. Thanks, Joe. I thought he had this all figured out. I can't tell with all the double talk, rule changes, CDC 180's, Fauci-isms, vaccination efficacy claims, booster shots, etc...


    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    That there is no vaccine for children is part of the problem. Our society makes you choose between your life and your livelihood because the economy is more important to politicians than people's lives. So, we have masks, vaccines, and social distancing to let those people who refuse to accept that COVID isn't done with them despite them wanting to pretend it's not a threat, and they STILL don't want to cooperate. It's why we're now facing a second variant and over 660,000 deaths. People didn't cooperate before the vaccines, and they're not cooperating now.
    If you're vaccinated, why should you care what other people do if the vaccine actually works? Same thing for masks - if they work, why do you give a flying shit about the dude not wearing one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Personally, at this point I think that anyone who refuses to get the vaccine because "COVID isn't real" shouldn't get treatment. Why should they get real treatments for a "fake" virus? Don't get vaccinated? You're on your own against the Darwin variant. I think they shouldn't also be clogging up ICUs and emergency rooms. They don't want to get vaccinated but run like hell to get treated. They also shouldn't bitch if stores refuse them service (it's all about freedom, right?).
    Some people don't trust vaccines, have medical conditions not allowing them, have religious beliefs against them, etc... So, in your version of society they shouldn't be treated? isn't that worse than the disease? Holy shit. I mean, I'm vaccinated, I encourage people to get vaccinated, I believe it helps you beat the disease if you get it, etc... Do I want people who have different beliefs to not get medical treatment? That's crossing a dangerous line, dude.

  3. How about wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated? I know we live in a sensationalist age, where it always has to be extreme, but some people aren't like what you think.

    I wear a mask. I social distance. I am not getting vaccinated for something with a 99.995% survival rate.

    Why should I be mandated to take this vaccine?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    The argument there would be, of course, that you actually are killing another person by having an abortion in the first place. Honestly, I've always seen both sides of this argument and genuinely believe that neither is wrong. They just believe in different things.
    I don't want to get into the whole abortion thing, but I think there's a difference between something that's not contagious and deadly and something that is.

    And, to your point, why don't we all just wear masks all the time? Flu, colds, etc... any transmissible virus would probably be lessened. Of course, no one knows the impact this is going to have on society, children, special needs children, child development, speech, depression, suicide, drug addiction, etc... but, fuck it, let's just do it to try to contain a virus that obviously can't be contained. 200 million people vaccinated and the numbers are almost at where they were a year ago. Thanks, Joe. I thought he had this all figured out. I can't tell with all the double talk, rule changes, CDC 180's, Fauci-isms, vaccination efficacy claims, booster shots, etc...
    If we had all wore masks all the time a year ago, we probably wouldn't be in this position. But of course, there was RAGE against wearing a mask because of all kinds of stupid bullshit. I don't understand the rage against rule changes. Why would you expect the science against a new illness to be instantly solid and irreversible? We're learning about this this virus as we go, so things will change to reflect new info. That's how science works.

    If you're vaccinated, why should you care what other people do if the vaccine actually works? Same thing for masks - if they work, why do you give a flying shit about the dude not wearing one?
    Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    Shit, I know a family of four that were all vaccinated and ALL OF THEM got it.
    Because nothing is 100%. The goal is to minimize the risk.

    Some people don't trust vaccines, have medical conditions not allowing them, have religious beliefs against them, etc... So, in your version of society they shouldn't be treated? isn't that worse than the disease? Holy shit. I mean, I'm vaccinated, I encourage people to get vaccinated, I believe it helps you beat the disease if you get it, etc... Do I want people who have different beliefs to not get medical treatment? That's crossing a dangerous line, dude.
    Medical conditions are one thing and totally understandable. You're not going to be forced to take something that would definitely harm you. Religious exemptions and not trusting the vaccine are something else. I've seen a TON of pastors here who railed against COVID end up dead because they didn't want the vaccine. The problem is that these people want to interact with society where they can potentially infect and even kill those who don't share their beliefs. Why should they get to do that? Why are their beliefs more important than other people's safety?

    Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    How about wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated? I know we live in a sensationalist age, where it always has to be extreme, but some people aren't like what you think.

    I wear a mask. I social distance. I am not getting vaccinated for something with a 99.995% survival rate.

    Why should I be mandated to take this vaccine?
    Remind the families of the 660,000 dead that COVID is 99.9% survivable. You're also ignoring the long-term physical damage this can cause. A lot of people are going to live with conditions like diminished lung capacity and mental fog.

    You do it to protect those who can't get it, like children? You may wear a mask and social distance, but too many dumbasses in the country refuse to do either AND they're not vaccinated. If people had actually done the things needed to stop this virus, we wouldn't be in this position. This whole anti-vaccine rage is selective, political pearl-clutching. You don't even have to get it. You can opt to take weekly COVID tests. This is all political theater done at people's expense. The vaccination rates in states is practically divided among party lines. Yet these people clog up ICUs and are the reason we're still stuck with this damn thing almost 2 years later.

    Moreover, Vaccine mandates are literally as old as this country. Where's the rage against mandating kids to get vaccinated for Measles, Mumps, Polio, Rubella, Whooping Cough, Tetanus? Where's the push-back and defense of MUH FREEDOMS? It's also hilarious that the same people making the freedom argument are OUTRAGED at businesses deciding to not let them in if they're not vaccinated. What about their freedom?
    Last edited by Melf; 13 Sep 2021 at 08:59 AM.

  5. Covid is never going away. Like Polio and small pox, everyone gets vaccinated to avoid dying from them. It doesn’t mean that you can’t be a carrier of the disease, like when the Spanish came to South America, with immunity to the diseases brought with them, only to infect the natives of the areas they had visited.

  6. Some wild generalization here, so let me simplify.

    Does the Biden administration have the right to mandate, economically or otherwise, vaccines?

    I say no. That's some unconstitutional bullshit.

    Trump did this a year ago people would lose their minds.

    Different boot, different taste I guess.

  7. The head of the federal government can't require federal employees to get vaccinated? Where have the cries of unconstitutionality been about members of the military having to get more than a dozen vaccinations? And again, where's the pearl-clutching at kids at school having to be vaccinated for literally decades? Private employees can just take a COVID test, so what's the problem?

    And Trump wouldn't have done this because it would have required some kind of coherent response to COVID.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    I don't want to get into the whole abortion thing, but I think there's a difference between something that's not contagious and deadly and something that is.
    Except we were talking about personal choices, not the difference between abortion and Covid. But I'll agree to put this in the past. It's a weird argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post

    If we had all wore masks all the time a year ago, we probably wouldn't be in this position. But of course, there was RAGE against wearing a mask because of all kinds of stupid bullshit. I don't understand the rage against rule changes. Why would you expect the science against a new illness to be instantly solid and irreversible? We're learning about this this virus as we go, so things will change to reflect new info. That's how science works.
    Really? Because in Japan they wear masks like crazy and their peak was less than three weeks ago. By a lot. I don't think the science is working there. And, honestly, I don't think they know half as much as they pretend they do. I think the vaccine is helpful. I think cloth masking up might help a tiny percent but I doubt it's much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Medical conditions are one thing and totally understandable. You're not going to be forced to take something that would definitely harm you. Religious exemptions and not trusting the vaccine are something else. I've seen a TON of pastors here who railed against COVID end up dead because they didn't want the vaccine. The problem is that these people want to interact with society where they can potentially infect and even kill those who don't share their beliefs. Why should they get to do that? Why are their beliefs more important than other people's safety?
    Again, if the vaccine is effective then what's the risk? Why aren't we wearing masks all the time, particularly children, where the flu is far deadlier than Covid? Where does it end? There's risk to being alive. Nobody gets to live a risk averse existence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    Remind the families of the 660,000 dead that COVID is 99.9% survivable. You're also ignoring the long-term physical damage this can cause. A lot of people are going to live with conditions like diminished lung capacity and mental fog.
    And you're ignoring all of the negative effects of mask wearing - particularly among the mentally challenged and children.

    And, also, this might be the first disease in history where no matter what you really died of it was covid if you happened to have it. A large number of Americans dies of Covid because they were simply living really unhealthy lives to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melf View Post
    You do it to protect those who can't get it, like children? You may wear a mask and social distance, but too many dumbasses in the country refuse to do either AND they're not vaccinated. If people had actually done the things needed to stop this virus, we wouldn't be in this position. This whole anti-vaccine rage is selective, political pearl-clutching. You don't even have to get it. You can opt to take weekly COVID tests. This is all political theater done at people's expense. The vaccination rates in states is practically divided among party lines. Yet these people clog up ICUs and are the reason we're still stuck with this damn thing almost 2 years later.

    Moreover, Vaccine mandates are literally as old as this country. Where's the rage against mandating kids to get vaccinated for Measles, Mumps, Polio, Rubella, Whooping Cough, Tetanus? Where's the push-back and defense of MUH FREEDOMS? It's also hilarious that the same people making the freedom argument are OUTRAGED at businesses deciding to not let them in if they're not vaccinated. What about their freedom?
    All of the vaccines you mentioned above don't mutate like a corona virus does. Again, I'm not anti vax or anti mask, but If you're doing both I like your chances. And, if you don't, and you happen to catch this virus then you might deserve what you get - and you do deserve to get treated.

  9. Hospital ICUs are over capacity and nursing staff are quitting from burn out, but sorry for everyone who's tired of wearing clothes on their face and getting a needle prick a couple of times.
    Why are you reading this? go to your general settings and uncheck the Show Signatures box already!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post

    Again, if the vaccine is effective then what's the risk? Why aren't we wearing masks all the time, particularly children, where the flu is far deadlier than Covid? Where does it end? There's risk to being alive. Nobody gets to live a risk averse existence.
    Kids should be wearing masks, especially in school. There's an explosion of pediatric COVID cases because schools aren't requiring kids to wear them. No vaccine, no masks. It's not going to end unless we make it. A risk in life is one thing. Reckless endangerment of kids is something else.

    And you're ignoring all of the negative effects of mask wearing - particularly among the mentally challenged and children.
    What effects are worse than the virus itself? Not being snarky. It's a genuine question. I haven't heard of that being a problem, but it would be interesting to know how they're dealing with it if it is.

    And, also, this might be the first disease in history where no matter what you really died of it was covid if you happened to have it. A large number of Americans dies of Covid because they were simply living really unhealthy lives to begin with.
    It does seem to provoke chronic fatigue syndrome, and people with pre-existing conditions and unhealthy lifestyles are more at risk.

    All of the vaccines you mentioned above don't mutate like a corona virus does. Again, I'm not anti vax or anti mask, but If you're doing both I like your chances. And, if you don't, and you happen to catch this virus then you might deserve what you get - and you do deserve to get treated.
    That's not the point though. The point is that all the people outraged by mandatory COVID vaccinations have ZERO complaints about all the others. Why? Isn't mandating government overreach/tyranny/whatever? Why is only the COVID mandate "unconstitutional?"

    I'm not saying people who aren't vaccinated shouldn't be treated, but do you think it's fair that people with heart attacks or other emergencies have to wait or are even denied treatment because emergency rooms and ICUs' are clogged with unvaccinated people? Idiots taking horse de-wormer taking much-needed beds? People don't want to wear masks, social distance, stay at home (the economy!), or get vaccinated yet they want everything to go back to normal. How is that a logical expectation? Had we done all the things we needed to, we could have been out of this months ago.

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