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Thread: The Biden Presidency

  1. 2.) If people really attacked him, as you say, "BECAUSE HE HAD A GUN", then those people are FUCKING STUPID
    Or, you know, in the middle of a mental health episode and there to pick up their psychiatric medication, as we've established.

    I don't know why you think a criticism of Rittenhouse is a defense of anyone else. I will say that this guy was yelling at people all night and none of them engaged with him, just Kyle. That shows a lack of good judgement in my opinion.

    3.) You're talking about "broad brush"es and yet you have no problem with sweeping generalizations, pretending to know what Rittenhouse was thinking and "fantasizing" about, apparently believe that self defense isn't a right, and believe that guns are solely for people hoping for death and becoming an "active shooter".
    This is a complete misrepresentation of my argument.

    Of course I believe in the right of self defense, but I think carrying a gun and running into volatile situations where you wouldn't otherwise is a generally poor strategy for keeping safe. I believe people have a legal right to own a gun, but I don't necessarily think that it's a good choice, and it's not a choice I would make.

    I think people that own guns do so to gain a sense of empowerment, or to achieve the feeling of security, but I am pointing out that this feeling is at odds with the reality that gun owners are more likely to be the victims of gun violence than non gun owners, and that your own gun is statistically more likely to be used against you or a loved one than in defense of them.

    So I'm characterizing that sense of security and empowerment as fantasy, a fantasy informed by media and cultural norms that don't really jive with the real world. And I am saying there are better ways to stay safe that people often ignore because they prefer to think of things in terms of romanticized violence.

    You can dispute or have issues with gun laws all you want but the entire problem with your argument is that Rittenhouse wasn't operating outslde existing laws.
    I'm not saying he's guilty of murder, I'm just saying he's a piece of shit who did everything wrong. I think he's morally responsible for those deaths regardless of if he's legally responsible.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 28 Nov 2021 at 04:20 PM.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Or, you know, in the middle of a mental health episode and there to pick up their psychiatric medication, as we've established.
    "We" being you? According to what I've heard in the trial, he was off his meds for weeks and that's whose fault, exactly? If he's not taking his meds and threatening to "kill that mother fucker" and lunging for a gun then that's ON HIM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    I don't know why you think a criticism of Rittenhouse is a defense of anyone else. I will say that this guy was yelling at people all night and none of them engaged with him, just Kyle. That shows a lack of good judgement in my opinion.
    Did Kyle engage with him by running two blocks away from him?


    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    This is a complete misrepresentation of my argument.

    Of course I believe in the right of self defense, but I think carrying a gun and running into volatile situations where you wouldn't otherwise is a generally poor strategy for keeping safe. I believe people have a legal right to own a gun, but I don't necessarily think that it's a good choice, and it's not a choice I would make.
    It's really not. You're blaming a guy who did something that was completely legal and within his right(s) as being the cause of the situation. I disagree with you. Would I have even gone down there with the world burning all around me if I didn't have a vested interest in something? Nope. Let's remember, though, he was seventeen. My morality and expectations of humanity were a lot different when I was seventeen compared to where I'm at now and maybe he really was trying to be noble and help. While I didn't have an AR-15 at that age, I could certainly see myself doing some of the things that he did were I that age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    I think people that own guns do so to gain a sense of empowerment, or to achieve the feeling of security, but I am pointing out that this feeling is at odds with the reality that gun owners are more likely to be the victims of gun violence than non gun owners, and that your own gun is statistically more likely to be used against you or a loved one than in defense of them.
    And there's that broad brush again. I don't disagree with some of that for some people. I can see it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    I'm not saying he's guilty of murder, I'm just saying he's a piece of shit who did everything wrong. I think he's morally responsible for those deaths regardless of if he's legally responsible.
    Meh. I'm saying he's a kid with good intentions that would probably do that entire day differently had he the choice. That being said, if you fuck with someone who is clearly armed better than you are then you're a stupid ass. I blame the three numb nuts a lot more than I blame Kyle.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    Meh. I'm saying he's a kid with good intentions that would probably do that entire day differently had he the choice. That being said, if you fuck with someone who is clearly armed better than you are then you're a stupid ass. I blame the three numb nuts a lot more than I blame Kyle.
    Everyone thinks their intentions are good. Hitler thought his intentions were good. But it seems like there was something fucked up in the way Kyle Rittenhouse thought, and you need to make a distinction between "good intentions" and "hero delusions." He put himself in a situation he wasn't prepared to handle because he gave into those fantasies about being a cop.

    He made incredibly bad decisions and based on the rhetoric of the group he was involved in, it's easy to see why people might thing his motives were more about opposition to a group he hated rather than humanitarian goodwill. You just seem completely willing to accept that he was there to "help" at face value, when his hatred for the protestors is well known.

    Kyle wasn't really that good a kid. There's video of him punching a girl at his school. He's a fucked up little shit who hung out with militia guys. Why are you so willing to accept the Eddie Haskell routine?

    There George Zimmerman parallels are unavoidable. A wannabe/self-appointed cop who inserted himself into a situation he shouldn't have, created a conflict that wouldn't have existed without him, and then used deadly force to defend himself.

    I don't think Kyle Rittenhouse went there hoping to kill people, but I do think he went there because he hated those people, resented them, and thought that he would be "supporting law and order" by playing fake cop.

    But the thing about fake cops is they don't actually know how to handle the kinds of chaotic and dangerous situations that law enforcement professionals do. He was a kid with no training who made a situation way worse.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 30 Nov 2021 at 12:38 AM.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Everyone thinks their intentions are good. Hitler thought his intentions were good.
    I stopped reading right here. Good lord, is this where we're at?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    I stopped reading right here.
    Cool story, so glad I tried to communicate something. God forbid any of you read a full post before replying.

    No one is calling Rittenhouse Hitler, and pretending you don't get basic cliche rhetorical devices is really a bad faith way to tap out of an argument.

    "Good intentions" being meaningless is pretty much a cliche, right? Road to hell and all that? It's hardly an outrageous point to make. No one cares about your intentions if you aren't also living in reality.

    And this becomes especially true when "good intentions" metastasize into hero delusions. People who start developing a grandiose sense of duty or self importance are often among the MOST likely to make some really troubling choices, right?

    TLDR: People often do bad shit when they start thinking of themselves as heroes, and that impulse isn't as "noble" as its apparent "good intention," nor does it deserve a pass, because it's rooted more in ego than empathy and tends to devolve into delusional self mythologizing.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 01 Dec 2021 at 12:17 AM.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Cool story, so glad I tried to communicate something. God forbid any of you read a full post before replying.

    No one is calling Rittenhouse Hitler, and pretending you don't get basic cliche rhetorical devices is really a bad faith way to tap out of an argument.

    "Good intentions" being meaningless is pretty much a cliche, right? Road to hell and all that? It's hardly an outrageous point to make. No one cares about your intentions if you aren't also living in reality.

    And this becomes especially true when "good intentions" metastasize into hero delusions. People who start developing a grandiose sense of duty or self importance are often among the MOST likely to make some really troubling choices, right?

    TLDR: People often do bad shit when they start thinking of themselves as heroes, and that impulse isn't as "noble" as its apparent "good intention," nor does it deserve a pass, because it's rooted more in ego than empathy and tends to devolve into delusional self mythologizing.
    Your full post wasn't worth reading and neither was this one. Once you start invoking Hitler into conversations I'm out. You're a fucking moron for doing so. My entire family was negatively directly impacted, both on my mother and father's side - including thirteen brothers and sisters, by that monster. Lending credence to something that you post invoking that shithead crosses a line and you should be very careful using in the future.

    Our conversations are over.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    Your full post wasn't worth reading and neither was this one. Once you start invoking Hitler into conversations I'm out. You're a fucking moron for doing so. My entire family was negatively directly impacted, both on my mother and father's side - including thirteen brothers and sisters, by that monster. Lending credence to something that you post invoking that shithead crosses a line and you should be very careful using in the future.

    Our conversations are over.
    You know I'm an Ashkenazi Jew right? We're from Poland, my entire European family was wiped out. Don't fucking grandstand to me.

    When people invoke Hitler in reductio ad absurdum arguments it's BECAUSE he's universally understood to be morally evil, that's literally the point. It's an easy common reference point for when you need to make an analogy about someone bad that everyone can understand and agree was bad. This is why Godwin's Law is a thing in the first place.

    The pearl clutching like you don't understand that just makes you sound like an insane person. You act like you're unable to grasp basic rhetorical concepts like analogy, and now you're trying to grandstand about Hitler like anyone here doesn't fucking know. If you can't or don't want to make an actual argument just say that and spare me the theatrics.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 01 Dec 2021 at 08:00 AM.

  8. Godwin's law, short for*Godwin's law*(or*rule)*of Nazi analogies,[1][2]*is an Internet*adage*asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a*comparison involving Nazis*or*Adolf Hitler*approaches*1.

    Makes sense. Hilter has as much to do with rittenhouse as white supremacy does.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    Godwin's law, short for*Godwin's law*(or*rule)*of Nazi analogies,[1][2]*is an Internet*adage*asserting that as an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a*comparison involving Nazis*or*Adolf Hitler*approaches*1.

    Makes sense. Hilter has as much to do with rittenhouse as white supremacy does.
    Literally referenced in my own post, do you ever actually read a post?

    Tell me, what would have been a more easily understood example of someone who is universally considered bad, but who thought of himself as a hero? You want to fix my post? Or did you not read that one either?

    And stop clowning yourself with strawman bullshit about white supremacy that nobody brought up.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 01 Dec 2021 at 12:41 PM.

  10. I read. I don't fully understand what you write because it's slightly mentally divergent and doesn't seem to follow logic. Most of the time you are far enough off point there isn't really a valid response.

    Seems more feels than reals, but to each their own.

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