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Thread: The Biden Presidency

  1. Looking for. But I'm not going to 100% believe that's what the warrant was for, until we see the warrant. Then it becomes a true looking for or found situation.

    If it was Nuclear documents and they did end up find them, holy shit.

  2. Let's wait and see, these Trump stories always tend to by overblown hyperbole and end up being zilch.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    Let's wait and see, these Trump stories always tend to by overblown hyperbole and end up being zilch.
    I mean there is bad reporting sometimes, especially when stories are developing, but to say Trump scandals always amount to zilch is a pretty hard position to defend. Russiagate didn't so much "amount to nothing" as "amounted to a lot of crimes around Trump that were difficult to directly tie to Trump himself in a way that could be reasonably prosecuted." To say nothing of the two impeachments which he skated on based not on any real challenge of fact but simple partisan alignment, and the countless other scandals that popped up every other week throughout his presidency.

    It's understandable to be cynical if we're talking about the chance of indictments or real consequences, given the amount of peril the man regularly places himself in and the fact that he's evaded consequences every time, but let's not clutch our pearls as if he would never.

    I think it's unlikely Trump will ever be convicted for his crimes related to Jan 6, since crimes like sedition and conspiracy are tough to prosecute and he used long-gone burner phones and it'll be tough to pin to him directly with first hand evidence, even if everyone knows he did it. But this classified doc stuff? This is much simpler, and more clear cut. Possession is the crime. And word is they have other circumstantial evidence showing intent to obfuscate, including moving the docs after reporting not to have them.

    In the end it's not really about hype or severity; Al Capone went down on tax evasion, not because it was the worst thing he ever did but because it was the clearest case to prove. Regardless of if this is actually tied to any kind of espionage in the sense we normally think of, he did it, and they believe they can demonstrate the circumstances that he did it knowingly, and for a crime like this, that's enough.
    Last edited by Frogacuda; 18 Aug 2022 at 12:13 PM.

  4. The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

    The Trump impeachments were a political charade. Were the GOP in control of the House, Biden would've been impeached (in retaliation) for all of the Hunter Biden nonsense, "big guy", etc... They would've found something to impeach him for just like the Democrats did.

    The truth is that all of this political weaponization just makes this country that much weaker in the world view and a banana republic. What the Democrats have done over the past six years is simply unprecedented in American history and it seems there's absolutely no vision about what the impacts of this are on this country. They're focusing on a tree instead of the forest. Hillary destroyed shit under subpoena and mishandled classified information as well and had no executive privilege or Trump's executive power to declassify things.

    I mean, fuck Trump. Fuck Biden. Fuck Hillary. I wish they would all go away. Give me a 40ish President please.

  5. Unfortunately, the people that are running for the office, are nothing more than corporate puppets that line their campaign pockets with their sponsorship money. Made up wars, health insurance for everyone, fake jobs.....where does it end?

  6. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”
    Right, although it does seem that there was coordination between Stone and the kremlin-aligned hackers who leaked the DNC emails, and I doubt Trump was in the dark on that.

    The Trump impeachments were a political charade.
    Perhaps in the sense that the impeachment process itself is inherently political theater, and has little to do with the facts or substance of the case.

    I'm pretty sure that we would both agree (as would the vast majority) that Trump intentionally provoked a riot in order to intimidate the vice president into acquiescing to an illegal gambit to overturn the election. Impeachment proceedings may have been pointless and/or premature, maybe even counterproductive, but the man committed a heinous and unprecedented crime, and the only people "defending" it are those who think the crime was justified based on his silly voter fraud lies.

    Likewise, the circumstances of the Ukraine call are crystal clear. Trump clearly wanted something in exchange for releasing aid. We all know what he's doing, and it's perfectly consistent with his transactional approach to literally everything in life.

    So yeah, maybe impeachment was dumb, maybe impeachment is always dumb, but it's not really fair to frame that as "just finding something" like Trump is a victim.

    Hillary destroyed shit under subpoena and mishandled classified information as well and had no executive privilege or Trump's executive power to declassify things.
    Trump hasn't been charged with anything yet. Hillary was subject to investigation, to subpoenas, she had stuff seized. Trump shouldn't be immune to that either. Let's not speculate about him being unfairly charged or comparing to Hillary until we see if he's charged and what with.

    Also the declassification thing doesn't hold water. There's a process for that sort of thing, and he didn't declassify them before he left office, and no longer has that power. He even filed a signed affidavit that he had returned items "marked as classified," so there's a clear and direct violation and attempt to obfuscate.

    Now if this all turns out to be some petty archival stuff, or Trump hanging on to things for sentimental reasons, I doubt they'll end up charging him. So let's see how it plays out before we start caping or whatabouting.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Right, although it does seem that there was coordination between Stone and the kremlin-aligned hackers who leaked the DNC emails, and I doubt Trump was in the dark on that.
    Conjecture but probable. Kinda like I doubt Biden was in the dark about Hunter's business dealings, getting $ as the "big guy", using the VP Office for personal gain and his son's personal gain, etc...


    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Perhaps in the sense that the impeachment process itself is inherently political theater, and has little to do with the facts or substance of the case.

    I'm pretty sure that we would both agree (as would the vast majority) that Trump intentionally provoked a riot in order to intimidate the vice president into acquiescing to an illegal gambit to overturn the election. Impeachment proceedings may have been pointless and/or premature, maybe even counterproductive, but the man committed a heinous and unprecedented crime, and the only people "defending" it are those who think the crime was justified based on his silly voter fraud lies.
    I would not agree with that at all. Trump called for peaceful protests not riots. Is he a delusional fuck who can't accept defeat? Certainly. Is he entitled to question the legitimacy of an election? Certainly. Was he unprecedented in that regard? Absolutely. Should he have conceded earlier? Without question. Impeached when not in office? Fucking ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Likewise, the circumstances of the Ukraine call are crystal clear. Trump clearly wanted something in exchange for releasing aid. We all know what he's doing, and it's perfectly consistent with his transactional approach to literally everything in life.

    So yeah, maybe impeachment was dumb, maybe impeachment is always dumb, but it's not really fair to frame that as "just finding something" like Trump is a victim.
    Every President in U.S. history has used the power of the office and the United States in exchange for something they want. It's called foreign policy. I don't argue that Trump did the above but I hardly thing think this is anything out of the ordinary. There were over a dozen listeners on that call.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frogacuda View Post
    Trump hasn't been charged with anything yet. Hillary was subject to investigation, to subpoenas, she had stuff seized. Trump shouldn't be immune to that either. Let's not speculate about him being unfairly charged or comparing to Hillary until we see if he's charged and what with.

    Also the declassification thing doesn't hold water. There's a process for that sort of thing, and he didn't declassify them before he left office, and no longer has that power. He even filed a signed affidavit that he had returned items "marked as classified," so there's a clear and direct violation and attempt to obfuscate.

    Now if this all turns out to be some petty archival stuff, or Trump hanging on to things for sentimental reasons, I doubt they'll end up charging him. So let's see how it plays out before we start caping or whatabouting.
    Did Hillary have her house raided for nine hours by the FBI? Did Ford prosecute Nixon?

    As far as the documents - we don't know what was declassified or not. The President/Executive branch has the ultimate power to declassify nearly anything at its sole discretion. Is that unusual to do? Yes.

    There's no "whatabouting" here. It's about precedent and there IS NONE. The magistrate who allowed the search who is now requiring a redacted warrant made public, who is an Obama donor, even said this is UNPRECEDENTED in requiring them to do so.

    I think this is a dangerous thing. And, if it turns out to be "petty archival stuff" then it will get Trump re-elected and nobody wants that.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
    I would not agree with that at all. Trump called for peaceful protests not riots.
    That's not only naive on its face, it's contradicted by the many accounts that the Trump team was very prepared for the possibility of violence, if not planning on it, that they had conversations about it, and that even after it broke out that Trump reveled in it, and only gave in to calls for to address protestors after hours of pleading from people in his inner circle.

    Is he entitled to question the legitimacy of an election? Certainly.
    That's not really what he was doing, though, now was it? He wasn't "asking questions," he was pushing ahead with a fraudulent scheme to certify fake electors and reverse the outcome of the election, without any of those "questions" producing a single "answer" that leaned in his favor.

    I think it's also important to note that while Trump may have believed broadly that he won "somehow", he was well aware that the specific claims he was making were fraudulent, because he admits to not even having access to voter data needed to make those claims in the Raffensperger calls, and that they were generated using bad faith name/birthday matching that created tons of redundancies of legitimate and legal votes. So he knew he was comitting fraud he just believed it was okay because was "right overall" somehow.

    Every President in U.S. history has used the power of the office and the United States in exchange for something they want. It's called foreign policy.
    He wasn't asking for "something", he was asking them to announce an investigation publicly in order to politically damage an opponent, before even actually conducting an investigation or finding anything.

    Did Ford prosecute Nixon?
    Ford was widely criticized for an irreparably damaged politically by pardoning Nixon.

    As far as the documents - we don't know what was declassified or not.
    We do, classified documents are marked as such, and declassified documents are also marked as such.

  9. Frog, I'm not going to get into these cut and paste conversations with you. It's tiresome, we're not convincing each other of anything, and I simply don't have the time and I'm really not interested in your point of view. One reply in six months and here we are again immediately. I'm done with it.

    Cheers.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Unfortunately, the people that are running for the office, are nothing more than corporate puppets that line their campaign pockets with their sponsorship money. Made up wars, health insurance for everyone, fake jobs.....where does it end?
    Iíll rebrand it for you, imagine thereís a single insurance company, everyone who works has to join it, therefore all of the risk is heavily spread out over young people that donít use it to old people who do, you pay for this insurance using a payment called ďtaxĒ, and then the system cuts out about three to six layers of middlemen.

    Hilary has an email server, lock her up. Trump has boxes of documents he shouldn't have in a gold course, itís all good.

    I guess your all still fucked in the head, I guess Iíll check back in another couple of months. Hope you remove your brain worms.
    Quick zephyrs blow, vexing daft Jim.

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