Science Vs God?????

[Curtis]

Oh, no flame at all; and if I say anything that may seem like such in my reply, I promise you, I am seriously asking whatever question it is that might seem like sarcasm.

/disclaimer

I understand that you believe in something you accept as the answer, but how is it that you know? What I mean by "know" is proof beyond the shadow of a doubt.

I've seen things. People slain in the spirit, speaking in tounges, etc. I've experienced much of it first hand, too. At the time, I believed what I had seen and felt was real. As time went on, I took part in other things that I'm nowhere near proud of, but I got the same types of feelings from those episodes, too. I finally had to settle on the idea that if someone believes so much, and wants to feel something so badly, that the human mind could make such a feeling happen, and the person would act out in whatever way the situation called for as a result.

I'm not saying this is always the case, either. I'm not trying to prove OR disprove anything. My point is not "Because I went through things this way, this is the way it is. Final." My point is that if what I experienced has that much of a question mark on the end, then there is no way I could ever know for sure until I'm no longer breathing, and there's either a God or I'm nothing.

Any comments or elaboration from your side are more than welcome.

[Captain Vegetable]

Originally posted by Orochi
Oh, no flame at all; and if I say anything that may seem like such in my reply, I promise you, I am seriously asking whatever question it is that might seem like sarcasm.

I appreciate this and will approach you as such.

I understand that you believe in something you accept as the answer, but how is it that you know? What I mean by "know" is proof beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Proof beyond the shadow of any doubt, eh? I've heard the voice of God. And I know He exists. He has proven to me that He exists. This proof isn't any kind of proof I could document, or show to someone else to turn them to Christianity, however, you didn't ask me to prove it to you, you simply asked for proof. So, there you have it.

He has proven Himself to me.

I've seen things. People slain in the spirit, speaking in tounges, etc. I've experienced much of it first hand, too. At the time, I believed what I had seen and felt was real. As time went on, I took part in other things that I'm nowhere near proud of, but I got the same types of feelings from those episodes, too. I finally had to settle on the idea that if someone believes so much, and wants to feel something so badly, that the human mind could make such a feeling happen, and the person would act out in whatever way the situation called for as a result.

I have experienced these things as well and must say that they are not Biblical, at least as they are practiced today. I would phrase it exactly as you have. If someone wants to feel something so much, and believe in something so much, that they are bound to do things that "prove" their beliefs. Speaking in "tongues" or being "slain" in the Spirit.

Concerning these: Tongues is referenced in the Bible all throughout acts and into the letters, but they are always of an intelligable human language. Not these "utterances" that evangelical churches have wrongfully perverted it into. It's also nearly condescended by Paul in his writings, saying that should a non believer walk into your midst and see you speaking in tongues, he'll think you all to be crazy. Paul goes on to say that tongues is to be done no more than three times per service (a comand flagrantly ignored by most practitionars of the gift), and must, must, MUST be followed imediatly by an interpretation. Any tongues not followed by an interpretation are false.

There is evedence in the Bible of "utterances," i.e. an unintelligable language; however, it is identified as "Prayer Language." A private language, Paul writes, that no one, not even the speaker knows what is being said, as it is your spirit communicating directly to God. As such, there is no interpretation, as no human ear can understand it.

And being "slain" in the Spirit is located nowhere in the Bible. I'd challenge anyone to find it. There are situations whereby people confronted by God are rendered paralysed, "forced" to their faces, and collapse due to fear, but none of these contain the circumstance purported in being slain in the Spirit.

[Tracer]

Orochi: You assume that God intends an afterlife. You can be certian of gods exisitance depending on your definition of God. Before dying even.

ºTracer

[YellerDog]

Originally posted by Orochi
As time went on, I took part in other things that I'm nowhere near proud of, but I got the same types of feelings from those episodes, too.

Did you fuck a goat?

[elBeardoAlwaysWins]

All I know is I stopped believing in God, started reading lots about new physics then started believing in God again, now whether jesus or muhammed is the way, i could give a damn, I think its super selfish and arrogant to think that we as men can EVEN BEGIN TO THINK LIKE THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE and have the balls to tell other people they are wrong when neither faith choice can be proven either way. Science is actually what proved to me that there is a God, not some two bit ass wipe preacher, some idiot hollywood guru or some rich boy coke head who found Christ and gave up all his money to open a church at the local high school gym...gimme a break.

As far as saying, "well I felt it, i know its real or I spoke in tongues," etc...dont underestimate the power of the human mind.

And if the creator of this universe is the same childish asshole god of the old testament I'd rather not be associated with him.

For all we know that could be the devil.

[FPM]

My mom speaks in toungues, and I've seen many other people do so as well. At what I would call a small group, the leader asked me if I would mind if the guest would pray for the youth (Myself and 2 other guys). I thought sure, why not. So first he prayed for the 2 other guys, then he got to me, and put his hands on me. After a minute or so of him praying over me, I collapsed. It was an incredibly strange feeling like someone was pulling me down. But nobody was sitting behind me, and apparently nobody touched me other than the guest. I'm still not sure exactly what happened. Oh, and my vote goes to God as well

[Tracer]

I can speak in tounges too... It's not hard.

[Diff-chan]

Originally posted by elBeardoAlwaysWins
As far as saying, "well I felt it, i know its real or I spoke in tongues," etc...dont underestimate the power of the human mind.

I dont know if you're saying this, but Im just covering my bases: its quite arrogant of you to think that what CV experienced is just a product of his own mind or whatever. I know stuff has happened to me, in my physical life, that has made me wonder about God. There have been things that have happened to me that have been way too... out there for it to be a mere coincidence or chance happening.

Whether its reading a science book or seeing something happen or anything, if God's existence is proven to someone, then it really doesn't matter how it happened - all that it matters is that it happened.

[elBeardoAlwaysWins]

I've seen globes of light in the night and a ghost of my father who is not dead a couple of times, now this proves TO ME that there IS SOMETHING ELSE OUT THERE, but as far as speaking tongues is concerned it comes down to possesion and if you have to be possesed to be convinced of Jesus...what kind of faith is that, i rather not have that faith, sounds more like something good ol Satan would do...

if there is one...

[Fe 26]

Originally posted by elBeardoAlwaysWins


For all we know that could be the devil.

You don't say? you might find this interesting. look around, see if you can find there opinion of the old testament

http://www.gnosis.org/welcome.html