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Thread: Sept 11th One Year later...

  1. If I were gay, I'd say I was gay. Admiting your a virgin in this day of age is likely to get you mocked more, but I admit that....

    And yes, I am racist, I am an Amerikkkan. I can admit that as well. You, however, like 99% of Amerikkkans, are in denile.

  2. I can't believe a year has gone by already. I remember the day pretty vividly. I walked into the lunchroom at about 11:00, over 2 hours without hearing anything about the incident, and saw all this commotion. I didn't know what was going on until my friend explained to me that the WTC and Pentagon were completely gone, and it didn't really register for awhile. We left school and had nothing to do, so we went into the park, which has a pretty good view of the city, and smoked a few bowls, discusing the situation at hand. We heard all the planes going by, and standing in the park looking over the water at the city where all the destruction had taken place, with my mind as it is after those THC receptors have been filled, it all seemed so surreal. I listened to the latest updates on my friend's walkman as we walked back, then got some pizza as we discussed the best ways to kill Osama Bin Laden, something we still haven't done, which is pretty sad to admit. That is a day I will never forget.

    Just a quick question for those who don't live in NYC. Did you feel detached at all from the situation, since it didn't affect you as much so as it did people in the area? I only know what it was like as a New Yorker, I don't know how this would affect someone from California or something.
    Well that's like, your opinion, man.

  3. I'm in NY state, not city. I hated NYC b4 911, and after. They are a leech on the rest of NY. I wish the whole city had crumbled.

  4. I just want to point out how weird it is to imagine EThugg's posts comming out of Bubbles mouth.

    "I am the Muffin King!"
    Great episode, btw.

  5. Hey, Gongos.

    No, I was not attacking Christianity or America's choice of allies. I most certainly was not advocating turning the other cheek to terrorists. No way, no how.

    On the contrary, I am sharply critical of the current administration's isolationist, we're-above-reproach attitude toward most of the rest of the world, and I am troubled by the Star-Wars, baseball-home-team idiocy that passes for civil foreign policy discussion among so many members of our population.

    Besides our inception in the 18th Century, no other point in history has demanded this much care in international relations. Since his very first weeks in office, President Bush has rarely demonstrated anything that ventures far beyond a cowboy mentality. I fully respect the sovereignity of our state, but I recognize that cavalierly kicking over trash cans, either directly or through our allies, does little more than create a lot of garbage to wade through.

    The terrorist attacks gave the administration another villain and a tangible goal on which to focus. I worry about all the hotspots in the world, and I would rather not see our Defense Department play the enemy-of-the-year game. Hence the reference to professional wrestling.

    The impetus for the "fatass" comment should be obvious. We used to be known for our great statesman and generals, now we are known for our round bottoms and our fascination with handguns and Uzis.

    Foreign policy is more than swatting flies.

  6. Originally posted by MrKasualUltra2000 [size=3]
    i usually post dumb comments and the typical stupid shit posted on vg message boards, but this is a serious subject so im going to treat it like one....

    9/11 was a fucked up event, no doubt about it, but it has left me somewhat emtionally sterile, our generation was programmed for this event...Die Hard, bruce Willis, Delta Force, Ikari Warriors, GI Joe, etc,etc....and the powers that be are finally taking advantage of this programming.

    Things arent changing around these parts, whered all the American flags go??? All thats left is a shitty economy and angry neighbors. As a country we are fading, quick, when Jennifer Lopez™ and Brad Pitt™ are what folks have in common, things are not as they should be.

    It is almost if our country is a giant corporation trying to make money off their latest production....its sickening if you take a minute to realize who is benefitting the most out of this catrastrophe....Larry Eliison, GW, Cheney, etc...a fucking blazing rating war between Cable News Networks, the outcome determined by who has the flashiest REMEMBER 9/11 GRAPHICS & the most moving music playing subtely in the background....get the picture yet?

    However, I thank the Lord my family or friends were not directly effected by this tragedy..and i feel for every victim and the families effected b the event, as hard as it is watching the world unfold from behind a glass tube.

    I found this article on the Net, and it pretty much sums up my feelings and probably lots of yours as well...

    enjoy.

    ~MKU2ooo™
    bewildered rice bandit at large®


    ----------------------------------------------------

    911 - The Day The
    Earth Stood Still
    By John Chuckman

    9-9-2

    I wanted to avoid this topic just as I want to avoid everything concerned with what has become known as \"9/11\" ...America\'s penchant for nicknames and short-forms holding even in its nightmares. But we do not always get to do the things we want, and ignoring this is something like ignoring a monstrous iceberg that\'s drifted into the harbor.

    On that date this year, a dense, almost impenetrable fog will descend over the entire United States. All thinking will stop. Television networks will proudly sport logos designed just for the day, and they will broadcast spots from advertisers pretending not to be selling anything. Hours of toe-crinkling, stomach-churning sentiment will be broadcast from politicians with the morals of gangsters.

    There will be a moment of silence in the casino lounges of Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Thousands, with casual-wear pantsuits bulging over the tops of barstools, will pause to reflect on the meaning of 9/11 between frenzied rounds of feeding slot machines. Elvis impersonators and chorus girls will bow their heads. The $8-an-hour student in the big fuzzy mouse-suit at Disney World will stop a minute from shilling for expensive rides and eats.

    Fundamentalist television-preachers will pause from the work of building media empires to pose in leather arm chairs and shake blubbery jowls, squeezing out a few more stage-tears for dear old America, confident that the moment\'s diversion won\'t hurt the flow of money from lonely, loopy folks living through television sets.

    Footage of smoking, crumbling towers will be replayed a thousand times on television stations with nothing else to attract advertisers. And it will be watched, especially where the option on the dial is one of those politicians reciting his pathetic lines for the twentieth time in a day. The replay button on a million video machines will be hit with trembling anticipation like that felt replaying a favorite horror flick. A billion terrible drug store photos, snapped on trips to New York, will be taken down from closet shelves to be thumbed and smudged over once again by friends and family.

    Recently a Canadian friend I had not seen for a while recounted her experience of flying into New York right at the time of the attack. I tell part of her story because it offers perspective on that day\'s events and what has been learned from them.

    Through the back window of her cab, she actually saw the second plane strike the World Trade Center. In the logjam of traffic in which she was trapped, crowds of people got out of their cars to gawk, large numbers of them furiously snapping pictures.

    Of course, such behavior, had there been a more far-reaching crisis, would have been exactly the opposite of what was called for. People were holding up the flow of traffic away from the city to catch photo-album memories.
    _
    A second riveting scene was her going to a bar in the evening for a drink in the airport-area hotel where she would be trapped, surrounded by soldiers, for days (this only after her cab returned to the airport following hours of effort at getting into Manhattan). The television broadcast pictures of American warships off the coast with commentary about how they were equipped with cruise missiles. The men in the bar cheered loudly, just as they would at a football game, fists and forearms pumping like the response to a touchdown. My friend could only put her head down and despair over the notion that she was caught in the middle of a war.

    The scene is interesting for several reasons. The football game reaction to the warships was a replay of the mindless, gut reaction to the military witnessed so many times in my lifetime. It is precisely the reaction that permits a government, often serving special interests and questionable ideology, to become mired in the affairs of others, often to an extent at odds with the interests of most individual Americans.

    It was obvious that the attack was the work of people who destroyed themselves as well as their victims. The applicability of warships, with cruise missiles no less, missiles whose only purpose is to destroy targets on the ground or sea hundreds of miles away, to this situation could not have meaning beyond a reassuring show of strength. And yet people cheered. At the time, there was no certainty about what group might be responsible for the destruction.

    Many of them still cheer over what has been accomplished in Afghanistan, that is, the killing of thousands of innocent people, the scattering of the genuine terrorists to the four winds, the toppling of a stable but unpleasant government, and putting in its place an unstable but equally unpleasant government.
    _
    The displaced government blew up ancient statues and abused women. Members of the new government murder prisoners, suffocating them by the hundreds and dumping their bodies into mass graves on the desert. They also devote time to shooting and blowing up one another. They still abuse women. In the last year, despite the photo-op casting off of the burqa, nine women have immolated themselves in protest over ghastly arranged marriages - a far greater number than occurred under the Taliban.

    I was reminded of audience reaction to the Sylvester Stallone Vietnam movie, First Blood. This was a fantasy that re-assured American mass audiences they might have avoided the despair, frustration, and disgrace of Vietnam had there only been people like the star making decisions. This star, a kind of living, plastic action hero figure, possessed the cunning to defeat every trap and the vision to avoid all confusing complexities - every trap and complexity, that is, except those of going into Vietnam in the first place.

    American foreign policy, and particularly the quixotic interventions it has entailed, over the last sixty years has been based on wishes and fantasy rather than facts, on how Americans - at least the financially and politically influential portion of them - would like to see the world rather than how the world is.

    To an extent that would surprise many people who regard America as advanced and pragmatic, this is, in fact, a society where fantasy plays a huge role. There are the fantasies of adults who behave like children. There are the paranoid fantasies of Christian fundamentalists who speak in tongues, heal cancer with a thump on the forehead, and find signs of devil worship in corporate symbols or children\'s books. There are many strange cults like those of Jim Jones, the Branch Davidians, the Aryan churches, or the recent oddity of sanctifying gibberish from a second-rate science-fiction writer. Always there is the escapism of Las Vegas, Disney World, and Hollywood, and the powerful fantasies of advertising that keep the economic engine at full throttle.
    _
    In many ways, this attachment to fantasy plays a role in foreign affairs, in the way America sees the world and how she understands her place.
    _
    In the Middle East, a place under great stresses including rapid modernization contemporary with the continued existence of ancient tribal cultures, something has been occurring much like the gradual build-up of pressure from the slow, almost imperceptible movement of tectonic plates. Under these stressful conditions, America\'s myopic views and careless policies themselves provide additional sources of stress. The accurate, dreadful message delivered on September 11 is that this way of treating events has become dangerous to Americans whereas before it was dangerous only to those who were the victims of American policy.

    And it is that message that America has ignored for the last year. All American efforts and tens of billions of dollars have been directed at two main objects. One is the distortion of traditional arrangements and freedoms at home plus many relationships abroad to help shape a Fortress America. The other is to intensify the very same policies, attempting to destroy people and places abroad viewed as especially unfriendly to the effort.

    I don\'t believe that any number of attacks and invasions can alter such a fundamental and growing problem. There are simply too many people adversely affected by American policy. You cannot use force to make vast numbers of people submit, unless you are prepared to impose indefinitely the kind of terror Stalin or Hitler imposed on society. And you cannot maintain a fortress society in a globalized world.

    John Chuckman[/size=3]
    -----------------------
    http://www.gamegen.com/fightgen/dhalsim-yyy.gif
    -----------------------



  7. I remember that day so vividly. I was tossing and turning in bed just hours before the attacks went down. I simply couldn't get to sleep and I didn't know why, because I WAS tired and sleepy. That turned out to be a very foreboding event...

    After I opened up our family business and let my mother sleep in, my relief came in the form of my uncle at around 9 in the morning. I stuck around and waited for my mom to show up, she was shopping at Tuesday Morning. Suddenly, about 9:30 or so, she came in with a panicked look on her face. She told me to turn on the TV...and we saw the two towers in flames. We were...speechless.

    Within a few minutes, the first tower collapsed. Immediately, our thoughts turned to my brother who lived on Manhattan, and though the chances of him being anywhere near the Twin Towers at that time in the morning on that day were pretty much non-existent, nonetheless we beyond worried. My mom and I were almost in tears when the second tower collapsed...

    Soon afterward, my brother called. He said he'd been standing on the roof of his friend's apartment building, and watched the second tower go down with his own eyes. He just called to tell us that and let us know he was ok, we didn't hear from him again for almost two days because all the phone lines to New York were clogged up.

    I went home and tried to sleep after that, watched the news some more, needless to say it took me awhile to conk out, and it was a restless and fitful sleep.

    That night, the mood at my college campus was grim as could be, a good deal of people were absent from my science class. Understandably so. No one much felt like being there. That night I stayed up and watched the news most of the night, and cried. Thats about all I could do...
    omg TNL epics!

  8. #48
    Hhm. I would have to say I agree with the man who wrote that letter. Yesterday I wrote a journal entry about sept 11. I rarely do that anymore. I found my self saying that it did not bother me that what happened, happened. But as I got farther into writing about the topic, I found that at one time, I did care. It did sadden me that so many had died. It saddened me even more to think of those who had time to contemplate what was about to happen to them that day, the terror they must have felt.

    I asked myself then ?why do I not care? or more exactly, ?how did I forget I cared? For the most part, I believe it is because of the way this nation as a entirety reacted to it. When I was sad the US had not yet found the enemy and had not yet reacted to it. People really felt bad and had not reacted really to it either. Then over time, instead of looking at this from multiple angles, the US looked at it from one very basic primal angel. ?Ug, we are attacked, me destroy, never happen again.? Now I will admit that some sort of negative reinforcement was necessary, but I can not agree with it being the ONLY thing to do. ALL it seems that we did, was seek revenge. The US has done nothing NEW to improve relationships with ALL nations. It has done nothing NEW to spread democracy and freedom across the world so all people can enjoy life. If its really like the news says and this was out of jealousy, then why are we not trying to raise up people or teach them how to raise themselves up so there is no distance between us to be jealous of? Of course the average American probably doesn?t know that current foreign policy makes the entire US look like a bunch of aristocratic assholes. How else would you look at someone who pays you 25 cents to make a sockerball, when the same company would pay a US worker 5.50 a hour to make socker balls? Am I the only one that realizes how that must look? It makes the rest of the world think that americans think we are worth more than nonameircan people. This is only one example to, a lot of what we do comes off like that, and is one sided and biased in favor of Americans. A bunch of people died on 911 because of the way our government makes other country?s people think we are all asshole, making it alright to kill us unbiased. The Gov has done nothing, to my knowledge, to change this.

    Now, on to how the people have effected me. The news tries to make it sound like 911 will be remembered forever, but honestly its like the people can?t wait to forget. When pearl harbor was attacked the PEOPLE responded, our people have done nothing more than turn the colors red white and blue into a new fashion statement. Most people come off as if they are simply sucking up to the US government in some pathetic hope of being protected. ?Look I?m wearing your teams colors, protect me, don?t let me die.? Other than reacting in fear, or simply for self preservation I have seen the American people do NOTHING. All they want is for the US military to go off and destroy the ?enemy? so they can go back to their humdrum little lives. They don?t want to worry about WHY it happened, they don?t want to worry about if they might of had something do with it. They will label you unpatriotic if you try to tell them that it is the US?s fault, that our policies and selfish ways promoted it. You will be judge as a USA heretic over policies that the very ones who accuse you have very little knowledge of. You might even be considered the enemy if you try to keep this nation free and argue against the government?s new ideas they want to try in the name of ?national safety?. Over all, it?s like before 911 the people were asleep. Then some weird bump in the night came, and instead of finding out what it was, they got their cute little uncle sam bear down from their dresser, hugged up tight to it and went back to sleep, while the bump is still out there.
    Ultimately it?s not the stupidity of the current times that makes me feel the worst. It?s the realization of what is to come because of it. If all parties refuse to proceed with both action AND intelligence, the past will repeat itself. It always does when people forget. The people of the world no longer really think a lot about Hiroshima, Pearl Harbor, or the Holocaust. Some people can go years and years and not even think about any of them in a serious way (key word, serious). People no longer really think about any of the big wars that America has ben in or why we fought them. They have forgotten how horrible they are, and thus they will be repeated. If mankind can not remember 911 and the other things I?ve mentioned when acting in regards to the future and the rest of the world the next thing that happens will be worse. It?s the idea of this going on longer and repeating itself, is what truly makes me sad.

    P.S. anyone know a word program that doesn\'t put those stupid ? in there. I\'m tired of going back and fixing that

  9. Ethugg: if someone blew up a building in Rochester you would care right?

  10. IronPlant:
    I understand your sentiments but nothing is going to get to the type of people who flew planes into the World Trade Center. Countries who want democracy already have it. What can be done to spread democracy, like you suggest?

    The type of people like Osama bin Laden will always hate America. I really think the US is operating on probably the best thing it can: by uprooting terrorists and countries that they operate in. I mean, is there any doubt that the Taliban was aiding al-Qaeda?

    So what's the point in playing nice-nice to them? To send aides to set up schools? To give them money to set up irrigation? To do all this? What would happen is that US resentment would continue... it happened in South America.

    Or Iraq... I mean is there any doubt that they are building nuclear/chemical/biological warfare? Do you think changing face and acting nice to Saddam Hussein and whomever else would change their resentment? Would just say "forget it!" and go home?

    It's not gonna happen.

    US policy should change in the future, but for now we have our enemies and they will be our enemies and continue to terrorize us for the forseeable future. So, to protect the US' interest we must fight them. This includes the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Iraq, and probably a lot more countries in that region.

    It sucks... but being nice can really only go so far and do so much. I do hope the USA changes the way it deals with Arab nations in the future but also keep in mind that the USA practically rebuilt Europe and Japan after World War II and good chunks of Europe still hates the USA. Sometimes, you just need to act on force. You need to dismantle these governments who want to harm your country. Now is one of those times.

    Its a shitty situation, to be sure, but hey, thats the situation we're in now. But it's not like an American flew a plane into Mecca or sent scores suicide bombers into Kabul.

    edit: Here's a beautifully written piece on the subject; it's on a pretty big blog or something that I stumbled on. Anyway it nicely sums up my thoughts.

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