Ikaruga [DC, GC, XBLA, PC]

[Mode7]

i hate the fact that games in the genre are designed to cater to the tastes of only the niche, which is totally stagnating the genre and making it less and less accessible -- isn't the whole concept of SHOOTING THINGS one of the most accessible *ever* in its natural state?

I understand what you are saying, and appreciate high-grade bullshit when I read it. Still, when the niche/core audience is practically the only thing supporting the genre, why on God's green Earth would you not cater to them?

These 'obscure mechanics' are the very things that keep this genre alive, interesting, and moving forward. Classic shooters are all well and good, but I'm thankful to see the few remaining STG developers flex their creative muscles in new directions.

[Celeryface]

Anyone from Canada here see the price tag for Ikaruga (GCN)? I've checked EB, and they have it for $59.99.

Just want to see if other stores sell it for the same price.

[Tyler_Durden]

Just picked it up.

Since Infogrames were so fucking set on defacing Ikaruga's cover with a quote, they should have at least switched that quote from some IGN jackass with the quote on the back: "Amid the turmoil and tumult of battle, there may be seeming disorder and yet no real disorder at all..." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

[ferricide]

Originally posted by Mode7
I understand what you are saying, and appreciate high-grade bullshit when I read it. Still, when the niche/core audience is practically the only thing supporting the genre, why on God's green Earth would you not cater to them?

because you end up inevitably dying.

look at the american comic book industry. look at the shooter genre. r-type FINAL doesn't say anything to you? come on...

and look at radiant silvergun. that game actually rewards you for playing it, it is accessible and slowly ramps up, and eventually anyone can clear it because of the way it's designed. yet last time i checked hardcore shooter fans liked it too.

if they had a real budget and a decent sized-team, they could think of more design ideas that would satisfy both camps and then implement them. i'd love to see someone really tackle a shooter that's aimed at *everybody.* if they could find a way to balance the audiences, they could really win.

after all, it's done in other genres. what about soul calibur? fighting fans love it for its depth, but regular people can play it cos it's fun and easy to mash and play at parties. that's the kind of thing genres need to do to survive -- and i like it when games are popular, because then they get more money for gorgeous, intelligently-designed sequels.

Originally posted by Mode7
These 'obscure mechanics' are the very things that keep this genre alive, interesting, and moving forward. Classic shooters are all well and good, but I'm thankful to see the few remaining STG developers flex their creative muscles in new directions.

how long can they last, though?

[MechDeus]

Eh, I don't agree. It's almost the same as completely leaving an "arcade" mode out, and I'm sure reviews would reduct points for such. I sure would. I don't always have a friend to play games with me. And especially not VF4.

No offense, but two-player is basically the entire idea behind fighting games. Sounds more like beat 'em ups would be your style, since those are actually designed around the single-player experience.

Ferricide: If you switch your last two paragraphs (as they may be):

Originally posted by ferricide
how long can they last, though?

after all, it's done in other genres. what about soul calibur? fighting fans love it for its depth, but regular people can play it cos it's fun and easy to mash and play at parties. that's the kind of thing genres need to do to survive -- and i like it when games are popular, because then they get more money for gorgeous, intelligently-designed sequels.

You basically answer your own question. It's (the obscure mechanics) keeping the fighting genre more or less alive, and innovative ideas like the color-switching are exactly what the shooter genre needs if it wants to draw in a larger crowd. It doesn't take away from the game at all, and not only adds to it but makes it a more interesting game for those who don't normally care about shooters (like I talked about above).

[Click_Stick]

Originally posted by ferricide

if they had a real budget and a decent sized-team, they could think of more design ideas that would satisfy both camps and then implement them. i'd love to see someone really tackle a shooter that's aimed at *everybody.* if they could find a way to balance the audiences, they could really win.

Not only is that a pretty ludicrous proposal, but if you're going to want to get into shooters, there's no easing into it. You have to jump in, and if you get slaughtered, oh well. It's a learning experience. Every shooter is.

[MechDeus]

Originally posted by Click_Stick
Not only is that a pretty ludicrous proposal, but if you're going to want to get into shooters, there's no easing into it. You have to jump in, and if you get slaughtered, oh well. It's a learning experience. Every shooter is.

Ah, but what he's saying is that exact sort of thing is why the genre is dying. He's suggesting something like the shooter equivilant of Soul Calibur for the reasons he already said, although I personally think Ikaruga is exactly that sort of thing. Whether or not the public will bite is a different matter entirely.

Granted, I don't think that a larger team or budget will change a damn thing regarding that. It's obvious what the design team (for lack of a better term) was after, and I doubt adding people to the equation would have made it more "accessible."

[elBeardoAlwaysWins]

Ikaruga is the fucking closest thing to art the game industry has seen in a while, it represents the perfection of the zen gaming concept , of course im refereing to the DC version. =)

[Click_Stick]

Ah well. It all boils down to the fact that not many people are willing anymore, I suppose. Kind of a shame, too.

[Aurora]

Originally posted by MechDeus
No offense, but two-player is basically the entire idea behind fighting games. Sounds more like beat 'em ups would be your style, since those are actually designed around the single-player experience.

For us few, I agree. But you're not looking at the big picture. The vast majority need more. A lot more. Why do you think the Soul Edge/Calibur games have such glorious extra modes? Why does Tekken have to put volleyball/bowling or whatever the fuck they put in the games, heh. Why does VF4 gave such kickass modes?

Because people need more. Well, most people that is. The mainstream people.